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[zdnet] AMD demonstrates Kaveri processor at Computex today - Page 12

post #111 of 177
HD5200 is a funny little chip. 128MB eDRAM is selling for 50$ premium and the 4950Q's idle consumption is 37 watts!
PS: it is tested on a pc mainboard!

Intel is so ironic these days selling desktop parts as laptop generating hype on power saving benefits...
The flamboyantly contested challenger to HD5200, the 4600M (some people are off the charts of irony so much as to claim the gpu equivalent 100 watt tdp desktop 5800K chip is a direct challenger to 47 watt tdp HD5200!) idles at 5.19 watts compared to 37 watts...
I think Intel needs to walk up the steps of AMD's gpu enhancements - Memory clock gating, zerocore, power gating - as soon as possible. I suppose new patent cases are on the horizon...
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post #112 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlvx View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

You have obviously not seen any GPU-related OpenCL benches. Due to the lack of latency, the APU outshines a CPU/GPU combo of the same level. You also don't understand HUMA if you think it can be replicated with a normal CPU and GPU.

I also have yet to see a 4350 bottleneck a 6670 or even 2 6670s in crossfire (that's what Richland is), but whatever, keep up your little fantasy world...

You are also forgetting that Richland and Trinity are VLIW, which do not do nearly as well at OpenCL as GCN. Kaveri is going to drop with GCN and it's going to be glorious, major changes. I even took the time to show you guys what we can expect going from VLIW OpenCL to GCN OpenCL.

7970 scores:


6970 scores:


As you can see, the gaming performance gains we saw going from 6970 to 7970 are not comparative to the luxmark changes. To give you an idea, GCN is almost 150% faster at OpenCL Luxmark than VLIW. GT3 just barely beat Trinity in OpenCL, and that was the entire Intel R&D force behind it and the main marketing feature of the new chips.

I don't know what is not to love about Kaveri? We are basically getting really, really close to Bullet Physics OpenCL accelerated on the APU's iGPU, a dGPU doing graphics, and the integer units and FPUs of the CPU doing the AI and all that other sort of stuff. Intel isn't going to be able to keep up with that at all.

I'm not forgetting anything.

My 3870k performs just as well as my 8350/7950 in single-video AMD APP assisted video encoding. The latency simply allows the APU to perform that much better by being able to use the GPU more. There's more to it then simply the GPU arch, though any upgrade the APU gets will seriously help.

Yes, if I load up 4 videos at a time like I can on my 8350/7950 it's obviously faster, the APU doesn't have the hardware to keep up at that point, but that wasn't what I was referring to either.

And yes, APUs with GCN shall be glorious. biggrin.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by kzone75 View Post

ok Let's bash AMD for using pins now, shall we? rolleyes.gif

I dunno, I think it's a fair enough question even if it is Xeb.

I'd prefer pins on the CPU though, i can un-bend those if there's a problem and it's less work to replace a CPU than a motherboard if I must.
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post #113 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcn77 View Post

HD5200 is a funny little chip. 128MB eDRAM is selling for 50$ premium and the 4950Q's idle consumption is 37 watts!
PS: it is tested on a pc mainboard!

link ? not sure where you read about the idle consumption, Anand says otherwise.

Edit : I asked for a link and I didn't supply one myself smile.gif
Source
Quote:
"At idle, simply refreshing whatever data is stored within, the Crystalwell die will consume between 0.5W and 1W"

regarding Iris Pro price, Intel (and every other Company for that matter) price their products based on market competition in a specific segment.
so price is based on performance, not the other way around as people here tend to think.
Edited by NirXY - 6/6/13 at 2:38pm
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post #114 of 177
I wonder if the laptop manufacturers are still going to do crap job with Kaveri, like what they did with Trinity.

"Instead of giving 100 different laptop models like what we did with Intel, let's give AMD only 10 models, and make 8 of them only 1366x786 resolution, one of them with crap keyboard or touchpad, and the last one a 6lb brick!"
post #115 of 177
The amount of Intel fanboyism in this thread shocks me, seeing its about AMD. Then again this is ocn, home of the cookie cutter PC builder.

*clears throat*

Okay, so, we've already decided that...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

Why are we even talking about integrated graphics on desktops? The market for that is almost insignificant compared to mobile devices.

What's the point of striving for SOCs and low TDP if it isn't about mobile devices?

For the 99.99% that buy these chips the Iris pro part being BGA will not matter one bit. It wont for me either if I ever end up buying one. I have absolutely zero reason to build an APU based machine myself. If I need a htpc I will put a discrete card in it because I'll want the extra power, not power efficiency.

TLDR: Intel owners believe IGPUs are useless in desktops.

Okay, so, the following markets don't exist:

ShuttlePCs
HTPCs
Prebuilt "Home Workstations"
Clusters/Farms
Thin Clients
Low budget gaming PCs
Or basically ANY form of desktop that doesn't game or do a ton of heavy work.

We also can glaze from that that certain people believe they themselves are the reason nuclear reactors are required in cities, because power consumption is irrelevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

And since the original argument was about AMD not having the best performance anymore but having to play the price/perf game, what the majority on OCN want is largely irrelevant.

That's all there was to it, but the statement was met with tons of posts that made no sense and pointed out something entirely different.

Look, here's the facts:

Intel has a higher performing IGP
Intel has a higher performing CPU
Intel can do this with higher efficiency

and thus AMD is left to compete with price/performance.

Is there something wrong with that statement?

TLDNR: Intel has a higher efficiency (that suddenly matters) and as always a "higher performing CPU"

As a certified 3d designer, believe you me when I tell you its cute hearing that Intel's CPU is "BETTER", AMD's CPUs are far more stable for the work done in the cad field (this is an opinion backed by personal experience) because things like HyperThreading are nowhere to be found. HT is a deathmachine for anything that needs to be made super-precise. And I'd so easily pick an opteron over a xeon.

They also have a higher performing IGPU, but as many have pointed out, it costs as much as an I5 and a decent GPU. (400 bucks was it? Either way, Michelle in my sig rig was built for under 400 and thats an entire rig that throws down better performance than an APU can offer IIRC) so yeah, the part is kinda irrelevant when two parts can do the job better for the same cost. But they don't like hearing that.

Also need I remind that AMD has a single high end chip they are competing against, with a whole fleet of budget chips.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

You obviously do not understand the concept of "the best".

Intel has the best IGP/CPU combo but it comes at a price.

AMD has good price/perf parts.

Why does everyone making this point get a reply about price/performance? No one is denying the price/perf. That's the entire point.
Titan is the better card. That does not mean that it has better price/perf. I just can't understand why this is such a hard concept to grasp.

Performance/TDP/efficiency:

i7 4950HQ > A10 5800K

Price/perf:

A10 5800K > i7 4950HQ

Which one is the better buy is completely subjective.

If the above is incorrect then please point out why. I don't understand why I have to explain myself 10 times on an issue this simple. With the launch of Iris Pro AMD does not have the fastest "APU" out there anymore. That is all.

Kaveri will maybe change this but we don't know yet.

TLDNR: Intel owner now doesn't understand that his opinion on "the best" is also relative.

A 460 2win beats the living hell out of a 580 in benchmarks, but there's way more to it than that and I know the same logic can be said here. "Intel has the best..." translates to the highest performing. However its poorly marketed, poorly priced, and gets flogged by other "solutions" at its own price point.

Side notes:

Assuming HSA (?) will go un-utilized is very, very foolish. Its in both consoles, its in enterprise chips, its only MIA from FX chips as far as I know.

AMD users always make the price/perf argument because AMD has been price/performance for the last EON. Even when the 7970 was beating the living daylights out of the 580 (and rightly so) it still never went above 600 dollars here. We have this GPU out there now that goes at 1100 dollars here and it still doesn't offer the best performance for a dual slot solution, but only a single GPU one.

Every one of the markets I listed an APU with a low cost would dominate in.

Lets also remember that OEMs will pickup cheaper equipment first (for those prebuilts that don't exist.)

~All the best.
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post #116 of 177
140 versus 300+
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post #117 of 177
SniperTeamTango, going against your own kind? thumb.gif
post #118 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperTeamTango View Post

The amount of Intel fanboyism in this thread shocks me

I've patiently read all the thread posts, and saw just the opposite.
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post #119 of 177
I want to add:
Quote:
Breaking things down to the GPU portion of Haswell, based in turn on these measurements I came up with an 87mm^2 adder for the extra hardware in Haswell GT3 vs. GT2. Doubling that 87mm^2 we get a rough idea of how big the full 40 EU Haswell GPU might be: 174mm^2. If my math is right, this means that in a quad-core Haswell GT3 die, around 65% of the die area is GPU. This is contrary to the ~33% in a quad-core Haswell GT2. I suspect a dual-core + GT3 design is at least half GPU. Meanwhile Crystalwell, the 128MB eDRAM, adds another 84mm2 die (by our measurements) to the entire package.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7003/the-haswell-review-intel-core-i74770k-i54560k-tested/5

Iris is huge gpu. They double the size from gt2 to gt3 to win 7660D.And it cost the triple rolleyes.gif
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post #120 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by NirXY View Post

link ? not sure where you read about the idle consumption, Anand says otherwise.

Edit : I asked for a link and I didn't supply one myself smile.gif
Source
regarding Iris Pro price, Intel (and every other Company for that matter) price their products based on market competition in a specific segment.
so price is based on performance, not the other way around as people here tend to think.
Thanks for asking, I wouldn't provide a link because I don't like Techreport's reviews, I find them biased against AMD. Funny, check this out:
http://techreport.com/review/24879/intel-core-i7-4770k-and-4950hq-haswell-processors-reviewed/7

Some other guy excused Intel for power supply incompatibility. I secretly lol'ed.
Haswell for laptops?

-Looks legit.
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