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[zdnet] AMD demonstrates Kaveri processor at Computex today - Page 13

post #121 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcn77 View Post

Thanks for asking, I wouldn't provide a link because I don't like Techreport's reviews, I find them biased against AMD. Funny, check this out:
http://techreport.com/review/24879/intel-core-i7-4770k-and-4950hq-haswell-processors-reviewed/7

Some other guy excused Intel for power supply incompatibility. I secretly lol'ed.
Haswell for laptops?

-Looks legit.

this is a total system power chart (@Idle), Iris Pro looks perfect.
not sure what are you trying to point out here..
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post #122 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by NirXY View Post

this is a total system power chart (@Idle), Iris Pro looks perfect.
not sure what are you trying to point out here..
Trying to pun assumed power gating benefits. Some claim that Haswell's voltage gating will prolong the battery life 25 fold.
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post #123 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by boot318 View Post

SniperTeamTango, going against your own kind? thumb.gif

I have no kind. Between the rigs I have here, the following hardware is in them or was at one point.
Warning: Hardware Diversity (Click to show)
AMD1100T
Intel 3770k
Nvidia 4602win
Nvidia 580
Ati 4770 FLEX
AMD 7950 (3)
Nvidia K20
Nvidia K10
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Nvidia Quadro 6000 (2)
Intel Pentium 620
AMD Opteron 6274 (I think)
Intel P3 Era Xeon
Intel P4
AMD Sempron
AMD 965
Intel 2100
Intel 3930k (still boxed, no board frown.gif )

I was simply pointing out flaws in arguments. That's literally what I do for my job is find flaws and fix them.
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post #124 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperTeamTango View Post

The amount of Intel fanboyism in this thread shocks me, seeing its about AMD. Then again this is ocn, home of the cookie cutter PC builder.

*clears throat*

Okay, so, we've already decided that...
TLDR: Intel owners believe IGPUs are useless in desktops.

Okay, so, the following markets don't exist:

ShuttlePCs
HTPCs
Prebuilt "Home Workstations"
Clusters/Farms
Thin Clients
Low budget gaming PCs
Or basically ANY form of desktop that doesn't game or do a ton of heavy work.

We also can glaze from that that certain people believe they themselves are the reason nuclear reactors are required in cities, because power consumption is irrelevant.
TLDNR: Intel has a higher efficiency (that suddenly matters) and as always a "higher performing CPU"

As a certified 3d designer, believe you me when I tell you its cute hearing that Intel's CPU is "BETTER", AMD's CPUs are far more stable for the work done in the cad field (this is an opinion backed by personal experience) because things like HyperThreading are nowhere to be found. HT is a deathmachine for anything that needs to be made super-precise. And I'd so easily pick an opteron over a xeon.

They also have a higher performing IGPU, but as many have pointed out, it costs as much as an I5 and a decent GPU. (400 bucks was it? Either way, Michelle in my sig rig was built for under 400 and thats an entire rig that throws down better performance than an APU can offer IIRC) so yeah, the part is kinda irrelevant when two parts can do the job better for the same cost. But they don't like hearing that.

Also need I remind that AMD has a single high end chip they are competing against, with a whole fleet of budget chips.
TLDNR: Intel owner now doesn't understand that his opinion on "the best" is also relative.

A 460 2win beats the living hell out of a 580 in benchmarks, but there's way more to it than that and I know the same logic can be said here. "Intel has the best..." translates to the highest performing. However its poorly marketed, poorly priced, and gets flogged by other "solutions" at its own price point.

Side notes:

Assuming HSA (?) will go un-utilized is very, very foolish. Its in both consoles, its in enterprise chips, its only MIA from FX chips as far as I know.

AMD users always make the price/perf argument because AMD has been price/performance for the last EON. Even when the 7970 was beating the living daylights out of the 580 (and rightly so) it still never went above 600 dollars here. We have this GPU out there now that goes at 1100 dollars here and it still doesn't offer the best performance for a dual slot solution, but only a single GPU one.

Every one of the markets I listed an APU with a low cost would dominate in.

Lets also remember that OEMs will pickup cheaper equipment first (for those prebuilts that don't exist.)

~All the best.

very good points sniperteam, but only one question (partially related): Why HT is so bad at precise work? what does or doesn't it do right? (and rudely of me i'd also slightly ask how it works)



off topic: planing getting my dad a new PC since his current one is nicely describing it crap. how big of a difference it would be if i'd get him now a richland instead of waiting for kaveri? (can do both just wonder)
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post #125 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperTeamTango View Post

Okay, so, we've already decided that...
TLDR: Intel owners believe IGPUs are useless in desktops.

Either you're deliberately misrepresenting half the arguments in this thread or you need to and read the posts again.
Quote:
Okay, so, the following markets don't exist:

ShuttlePCs can fit discrete cards, no reason for APU only for gaming
HTPCs can fit discrete cards, no reason for APU only for gaming
Prebuilt "Home Workstations" I have no idea what this is but the words workstation and APU don't fit together
Clusters/Farms What is the use for a powerful IGP in these, heavey GPU work --> discrete, no heavy GPU work ---> no need for powerful APU
Thin Clients Mostly part of the mobile category, uses mobile parts and has been discussed many times here
Low budget gaming PCs APU only low end? extremely niche
Or basically ANY form of desktop that doesn't game or do a ton of heavy work. Doesn't need a powerful GPU, even HD2000 is enough

replies to the categories in bold.

Those are only situations where an APU can be used. Not where it's inherently useful.
Quote:
We also can glaze from that that certain people believe they themselves are the reason nuclear reactors are required in cities, because power consumption is irrelevant.
TLDNR: Intel has a higher efficiency (that suddenly matters) and as always a "higher performing CPU"

Efficiency is extremely important when it comes to mobile parts which is what APUs mostly are.
Quote:
As a certified 3d designer, believe you me when I tell you its cute hearing that Intel's CPU is "BETTER", AMD's CPUs are far more stable for the work done in the cad field (this is an opinion backed by personal experience) because things like HyperThreading are nowhere to be found. HT is a deathmachine for anything that needs to be made super-precise. And I'd so easily pick an opteron over a xeon.

Please provide 3rd party proof of these claims.
Quote:
They also have a higher performing IGPU, but as many have pointed out, it costs as much as an I5 and a decent GPU.

Missing the point entirely. Iris is meant for environments where an i5 and a discrete GPU just aren't an option or are a much worse option. Good luck with a desktop i5 and discrete card in a macbook pro.
Quote:
(400 bucks was it? Either way, Michelle in my sig rig was built for under 400 and thats an entire rig that throws down better performance than an APU can offer IIRC) so yeah, the part is kinda irrelevant when two parts can do the job better for the same cost. But they don't like hearing that.

Your mini rig also has absolutely nothing to do with the market the Iris pro is targeting.

It's not in the same form factor
Doesn't fit the power envelope
has a weaker CPU
does not consist of parts capable of mobile operation
and so on
Quote:
Also need I remind that AMD has a single high end chip they are competing against, with a whole fleet of budget chips.

Completely irrelevant to the arguments made here. All that's been argued is that Intel now has the IGP perf crown.
Quote:
TLDNR: Intel owner now doesn't understand that his opinion on "the best" is also relative.

TLDR: AMD owner bringing subjective values to a performance only argument.
Quote:
A 460 2win beats the living hell out of a 580 in benchmarks, but there's way more to it than that and I know the same logic can be said here. "Intel has the best..." translates to the highest performing. However its poorly marketed, poorly priced, and gets flogged by other "solutions" at its own price point.

Comparison makes no sense first of all.

And secondly again failing to realize the market for higher performing IGPs. High end laptops with a smaller form factor and higher battery life, AIO desktops, high end ultrabooks and so on. It is meant to combat lower end discrete parts in mobile devices but offering more lucrative power requirements and form factors. Not some self built desktop as you seem to imply.

Poorly priced is subjective as is poorly marketed.
Quote:
Side notes:

Assuming HSA (?) will go un-utilized is very, very foolish. Its in both consoles, its in enterprise chips, its only MIA from FX chips as far as I know.

I have never assumed this however the key word is the one I bolded.

At the moment HSA offers nothing of value to the consumer.
Quote:
AMD users always make the price/perf argument because AMD has been price/performance for the last EON.

Out of necessity. They have no problem pricing their products high when they can. See original FX or the 7990.
Quote:
Even when the 7970 was beating the living daylights out of the 580 (and rightly so) it still never went above 600 dollars here.

This always happens on a new node. Only reason it was so cheap was that everyone knew Nvidia was releasing cards in 2 months of the 7970 hard launch.
Quote:
We have this GPU out there now that goes at 1100 dollars here and it still doesn't offer the best performance for a dual slot solution, but only a single GPU one.

Is there something wrong with a premium for the best? AMD certainly doesn't seem to think so with the 7990. Except that it doesn't even work.
Quote:
Every one of the markets I listed an APU with a low cost would dominate in.

Except every higher end market with strict power requirements.

Macbooks, imacs, other AIOs, ultrabooks etc. apparently aren't a market at all since you refuse to acknowledge them.
Quote:
Lets also remember that OEMs will pickup cheaper equipment first (for those prebuilts that don't exist.)

~All the best.

OEMs will pick up the parts that they feel they can make more profit on.

AMD should start sorting out their OEM relations because there are hardly any high quality AMD based mobile products out there. Its always cheap plastic and they're on display in a corner somewhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperTeamTango View Post

I have no kind. Between the rigs I have here, the following hardware is in them or was at one point.
Warning: Hardware Diversity (Click to show)
AMD1100T
Intel 3770k
Nvidia 4602win
Nvidia 580
Ati 4770 FLEX
AMD 7950 (3)
Nvidia K20
Nvidia K10
Nvidia Quadro 4000 (2)
Nvidia Quadro 6000 (2)
Intel Pentium 620
AMD Opteron 6274 (I think)
Intel P3 Era Xeon
Intel P4
AMD Sempron
AMD 965
Intel 2100
Intel 3930k (still boxed, no board frown.gif )

I was simply pointing out flaws in arguments. That's literally what I do for my job is find flaws and fix them.

Same goes for other people as well.
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post #126 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKTGX95 View Post

very good points sniperteam, but only one question (partially related): Why HT is so bad at precise work? what does or doesn't it do right? (and rudely of me i'd also slightly ask how it works)



off topic: planing getting my dad a new PC since his current one is nicely describing it crap. how big of a difference it would be if i'd get him now a richland instead of waiting for kaveri? (can do both just wonder)

I'm honestly not entirely sure, I'm a modeller/designer, not a software engineer. However I've run tests on an I5 vs an I7 at the stock clock (2500k vs 2600k if you need to know) and the 2500k still came out ahead because the software I was using told me the errors in the render on the 2600k were so substantial it needed to be run. Bearing in mind that I had a tollerance of absolute zero, but still, I didn't see a 2500k doing that. However the even clocked 1100T (which is why I still have it even at end of life) beat the 2500k out because it has more cores available to splitup the work.

Kaveri doesn't seem that far away, but if it needs to be done now then do it now, otherwise wait, even if the advantage is minimal, richland will be cheaper then. thumb.gif
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post #127 of 177
Alatar... your replies in bold are simply opinions based on how you would build that kind of computer, which tends to be not cost conscious or hopeful for any HSA implementation at any point in the future.
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post #128 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by trulsrohk View Post

Alatar... your replies in bold are simply opinions based on how you would build that kind of computer, which tends to be not cost conscious or hopeful for any HSA implementation at any point in the future.

And the same goes for using an APU in said kinds of builds.

The point is that it's not inherently better to use an APU in the systems. However it is inherently better to use a SOC in lower power environments or mobile form factors.

And for high end products where SOCs are needed intel now produces better products.
Edited by Alatar - 6/6/13 at 3:52pm
 
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post #129 of 177
Amd won't beat Intel with force, it will beat Intel on physics and brute inertia as a matter of my opinion. "The bigger you are, the stronger gravity pulls".
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post #130 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

And the same goes for using an APU in said kinds of builds.

The point is that it's not inherently better to use an APU in the systems. However it is inherently better to use a SOC in lower power environments or mobile form factors.

And that's your opinion. You can't state what is good and what is not good for others.

Many use APUs in their system for cost effective reasons and power consumption reasons.
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