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[zdnet] AMD demonstrates Kaveri processor at Computex today - Page 7

post #61 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

My point is still the same as it was with my first post in this thread.

I was responding to this statement:

"Intel has nothing close to what AMD APUs are doing."

And my point is that it's wrong. Which at this point is obvious. Especially when HSA does not offer any advantages at this point in time.

Intel has nothing close to what AMD APUs are doing. That is true. What does intel offer for $149 that beats amd APU or come close?

Until then sir... You are wrong.
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post #62 of 177
Thread Starter 
Alatar and Stay Puft give such great tech advice. I just go with whatever they say.



AMD's Richland vs. Intel's Haswell GPU on the Desktop: Radeon HD 8670D vs. Intel HD 4600
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7032/amds-richland-vs-intels-haswell-gpu-on-the-desktop-radeon-hd-8670d-hd-4600/2

84W i7-4770k (22nm) vs 100W A10-6800k (32nm)

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Quote:
Despite Haswell's arrival on the desktop, AMD is in no trouble at all from a graphics perspective. At the high end, Richland maintains a 17 - 50% GPU performance advantage (~30% on average) over Intel's HD 4600 (Haswell GT2). All things equal, even Trinity is good enough to maintain this performance advantage - a clear downside of Intel not bringing its Iris or Iris Pro graphics to any socketed desktop parts.

But well all know that Anandtech a bunch of AMD fanboys. so, the review should be discarded. 30% margin of error.


Quote:
Later this year we'll see the arrival of Kaveri, which will be AMD's true response to Iris as well as its first HSA enabled APU. For as long as I can remember, integrated graphics was one of the most frustrating aspects of PC hardware to test. It looks like that's finally about to change.

Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell $349.99 @newegg
AMD A10-6800K Richland $149.99@newegg
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post #63 of 177
man you guys are confusing.
is this a price/perf argument or a perf argument?
because, from either direction alatar takes you guys end up calling him a fanboy.
even when he specifically agreed to the price/perf statement, on his own.
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post #64 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by t00sl0w View Post

man you guys are confusing.
is this a price/perf argument or a perf argument?
because, from either direction alatar takes you guys end up calling him a fanboy.
even when he specifically agreed to the price/perf statement, on his own.


The quote below is what we are saying.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Heuchler View Post

Alatar and Stay Puft give such great tech advice. I just go with whatever they say.



AMD's Richland vs. Intel's Haswell GPU on the Desktop: Radeon HD 8670D vs. Intel HD 4600
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7032/amds-richland-vs-intels-haswell-gpu-on-the-desktop-radeon-hd-8670d-hd-4600/2

84W i7-4770k (22nm) vs 100W A10-6800k (32nm)

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But well all know that Anandtech a bunch of AMD fanboys. so, the review should be discarded. 30% margin of error.
Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell $349.99 @newegg
AMD A10-6800K Richland $149.99@newegg

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post


Instead of attacking him why don't you try proving him wrong?

Good luck.

When someone proves him wrong the quote below is what happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

Why are we even talking about integrated graphics on desktops? The market for that is almost insignificant compared to mobile devices.

What's the point of striving for SOCs and low TDP if it isn't about mobile devices?

For the 99.99% that buy these chips the Iris pro part being BGA will not matter one bit. It wont for me either if I ever end up buying one. I have absolutely zero reason to build an APU based machine myself. If I need a htpc I will put a discrete card in it because I'll want the extra power, not power efficiency.
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post #65 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

Assuming 31.77% faster in games is a tiny bit better. (average from Anand's review that was filled with gaming evolved titles)

And assuming we don't take into account the fact that you're comparing a 55W TPD CPU against a 100W TDP one.

And I always see people complaining about drivers but I've yet to see any proof with the new Iris chips.

So yes, the AMD parts are now slower and less power efficient. They're again left with price/perf as always.

Anand's review on Iris pro was made by taking the chip an putting it into a desktop box, unless I am mistaken. Since it is essentially a laptop chip,I'll expect the actual laptop products using to evaluate temps/performance. But my main issue with this type of reviews remains- they are essentially SYSTEM reviews,not graphic capability reviews. Sure, the combo of a portable haswell i7 paired with crystalwell will most likely (as it seems) outperform an A10-4600M in games. But we simply CANNOT extrapolate pure graphic performance based on that. 5200 is powered by a beefy 8 threaded i7 that only lacks a few hundred Mhz compared to its desktop brethren. The AMD one is just a lowly underclocked A class processor when it comes to the cpu part which explains huge part of the fps deficit. But since it is a system comparison,pricewise iris is left to fight it out with discreet gpu systems ,and batterly life will take you only so far.
Edited by Kuivamaa - 6/6/13 at 10:02am
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post #66 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heuchler View Post


Youtube Kaveri APU playing Devil May Cry - 4Gamer.net Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Not that impressive. My PC ran it at my monitor's highest resolution. Why is there lag? Is it because of recording?
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post #67 of 177
eh, i hate conferences that give you horrible statements like: "if you look at computation from a few years ago and look at it now, it's different." and they don't explain anything about yet, let alone, go off saying their APU is the future. frankly, computing has not changed but rather has made use of allowing more to be used. their idea of 'fusion' hasn't existed and their implementation of it is horrific in applications, like openCL, where the performance is still only slightly better. they talk about a 'balance' but the standard gaming resolution today is 1080p+. As more and more devices push high resolution/dpi displays, the magnitude of processing power required for gaming and running simple applications on the desktop is horrifically different. their APU approach would be great if gaming hasn't gone down this route and under 1080p screens were common - but they aren't (unless tablets - low end laptops which won't be gamed on). Then their APU approach is still not following their actual 'fusion' future, it still is no different then how a normal GPU and CPU work - they just slabbed both on the same die.

they talk about balance? their cpus in their apus bottleneck their gpus still. running hyrbid shows, in most cases, horrific scaling and sometimes backwards scaling, even when the game offers good multi-gpu support. AMD is still not doing it 'right' - except for this tablet+android approach. Hopefully they might shine there. On the desktop front, it's a lot better value in spending 50 bucks more for an Intel + dedicated card, let alone, on battery life too as the igp draws very little power and it's not hard to render your display resolution for basic work on that, then going the AMD direction. The tables are far too unbalanced, these days, for computation work loads required for gaming and normal media/office consumption and AMD is cutting back far too much on their CPU arch to slab in GPUs that are too powerful for basic tasks and not powerful enough for gaming. their focus on the mobile front should be like intel is, and if they want to push the APU ont he desktop, they should make ridiculously huge dies that mix the two together. having an apu with the performance of their high end FX chips while offering a HD 7870 on the die while being 400w TPD would be amazing.
post #68 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

You didn't fix it, you just added my entire point there three times.

I did point out that AMD is competing with price/perf. That's all my claim was. That they don't have the highest performing "APU" anymore. Why that's a controversial statement I do not know.

Maybe this will change with kaveri but we'll have to see. What is certain however is that we can't say that intel is lightyears behind AMD in IGPs.

So does that mean the GTX Titan is a much better buy than the GTX 780? I mean, the Titan has better performance, and that's all it counts, right?...
post #69 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post

eh, i hate conferences that give you horrible statements like: "if you look at computation from a few years ago and look at it now, it's different." and they don't explain anything about yet, let alone, go off saying their APU is the future. frankly, computing has not changed but rather has made use of allowing more to be used. their idea of 'fusion' hasn't existed and their implementation of it is horrific in applications, like openCL, where the performance is still only slightly better. they talk about a 'balance' but the standard gaming resolution today is 1080p+. As more and more devices push high resolution/dpi displays, the magnitude of processing power required for gaming and running simple applications on the desktop is horrifically different. their APU approach would be great if gaming hasn't gone down this route and under 1080p screens were common - but they aren't (unless tablets - low end laptops which won't be gamed on). Then their APU approach is still not following their actual 'fusion' future, it still is no different then how a normal GPU and CPU work - they just slabbed both on the same die.

they talk about balance? their cpus in their apus bottleneck their gpus still. running hyrbid shows, in most cases, horrific scaling and sometimes backwards scaling, even when the game offers good multi-gpu support. AMD is still not doing it 'right' - except for this tablet+android approach. Hopefully they might shine there. On the desktop front, it's a lot better value in spending 50 bucks more for an Intel + dedicated card, let alone, on battery life too as the igp draws very little power and it's not hard to render your display resolution for basic work on that, then going the AMD direction. The tables are far too unbalanced, these days, for computation work loads required for gaming and normal media/office consumption and AMD is cutting back far too much on their CPU arch to slab in GPUs that are too powerful for basic tasks and not powerful enough for gaming. their focus on the mobile front should be like intel is, and if they want to push the APU ont he desktop, they should make ridiculously huge dies that mix the two together. having an apu with the performance of their high end FX chips while offering a HD 7870 on the die while being 400w TPD would be amazing.
400W TDP? You're making me laugh. They would be able to that with under 300W if that's what they are showing us at least with Richland.
And also the CPU doesn't bottleneck the iGPU, the memory bandwidth does.
Funny, very funny.
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post #70 of 177
Well what if the HD 5200 found itself on lower end parts, I can't see why Intel can't do this, Intel now does have a stronger IGP compared to amd regardless of price, driver wise not to sure how it compares but it is a faster hardware.

I wonder how kaveri will compare both in terms of gpu and cpu. Temash is a real good product in its segment, runs circles around the current atom, so yeah I guess atleast amd have a good product there tongue.gif.


I don't think amd needed to release the 6800K, I find the product to be quite unneeded I mean the improvements are very marginal at best, they should just focus on kaveri.
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