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[zdnet] AMD demonstrates Kaveri processor at Computex today - Page 9

post #81 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post


Power consumption and mobile. You will not get similar performance (both CPU and GPU) with similar power consumption.

And that's pretty much the most important thing for mobile devices. And it's especially important for people who want the best of both worlds, good battery life / good acoustics / good form factor and also good performance.

Desktop APUs are extremely niche. Llano for example did not sell that well due to AMD not targeting laptops well enough. SOCs are for mobile mostly. The budget buyer who can't afford to spend that extra $50 and is looking to buy a gaming desktop is in an extreme minority.

"gameing desktop" maybe. but it turns out that 50% of APUs that AMD sells are for desktops. 36% of their sales from 2012 were APUS...50% of those were desktop.

http://www.techpowerup.com/img/12-11-19/146b.jpg
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post #82 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by fantasyalive View Post

I agree with what your saying, mostly, but will you still get good batter life with 45/55 watt processors? In the mobile area, the highest AMD goes is 35 watt.
I thought Llano did sell well for them in the mobile sector or was it only Brazos? I know for 3 or4 quarters in a row after launch of Llano and Brazos AMD gained mobile market share. If anything I would say trinity and Brazos 2.0 have performed poorly for them.

Good battery life is a bit relative. Of course any beefier APUs aren't ULV parts or anything but they sure beat having a fully fledged discrete GPU on top of a beefy CPU.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejb222 View Post

"gameing desktop" maybe. but it turns out that 50% of APUs that AMD sells are for desktops. 36% of their sales from 2012 were APUS...50% of those were desktop.

http://www.techpowerup.com/img/12-11-19/146b.jpg

Doesn't matter since AMD CPUs/APUs in general aren't exactly selling well. Especially on the laptop side of things the problem is OEM relations. AMD can't get good laptop designs.

Check out intel statistics and how much "APUs" intel is shipping for mobile devices...
 
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post #83 of 177
Gt3e belongs in ultrathin and mac air line-ups. Where thinness and low power draw are important. Gt3e seems like good performance/watt(tdp based assumption) compared to a discrete solution and yet easier to design around. Price is less of an issue in that kind of market, and Intel needed to do something better than hd4000.
Does anyone had any power draw numbers for gt3e? Hd4000 was bad (high power draw) compared to 7660d a lot of the time while still losing benchmarks.
post #84 of 177
Kaveri is probably the first AMD CPU I will buy since Phenom II tongue.gif

Thanks for the thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

My point is still the same as it was with my first post in this thread.

I was responding to this statement:

"Intel has nothing close to what AMD APUs are doing."

And my point is that it's wrong. Which at this point is obvious. Especially when HSA does not offer any advantages at this point in time.

Oh please, more AMD bashing?

HSA will be like Android: an open platform supported by big name companies (ARM, Samsung, Texas Instruments, Qualcomm, etc) allows for REALLY fast adoption

AMD's not going to make the same mistake as with AMD64, which didn't have 64 bit apps and a slew of other manufacturers backing them

HSA is advancement. Change is hard I know. I still have access to a IBM typewriter though for 99% of people it's useless.

Please read http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/opinion/2253532/amd-looks-to-hsa-foundation-to-avoid-amd64-mistakes
Edited by AlphaC - 6/6/13 at 12:38pm
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post #85 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

Doesn't matter since AMD CPUs/APUs in general aren't exactly selling well. Especially on the laptop side of things the problem is OEM relations. AMD can't get good laptop designs.

Check out intel statistics and how much "APUs" intel is shipping for mobile devices...

That's not AMD's problem, that's the OEMs' for considering the APUs as an after thought, and flooding the market with lots of i5 laptops (with no dedicated GPUs) marketed for everyday usage. They only have an i5 because it looks better on paper.

When the netbooks were first introduced, they sold like hotcakes. Then they got bigger, heavier, and more powerful until they were impossible to tell from the light laptops. Then the tablets and smartphones finished them off.

And if you want to know how bad some of their designs are:

(Red = Higher pressure from heatsink)


That's my Asus N61Jq laptop's pressure paper results. Small wonder why the stock thermal paste and Arctic MX4 paste failed badly.
post #86 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domino View Post

eh, i hate conferences that give you horrible statements like: "if you look at computation from a few years ago and look at it now, it's different." and they don't explain anything about yet, let alone, go off saying their APU is the future. frankly, computing has not changed but rather has made use of allowing more to be used. their idea of 'fusion' hasn't existed and their implementation of it is horrific in applications, like openCL, where the performance is still only slightly better. they talk about a 'balance' but the standard gaming resolution today is 1080p+. As more and more devices push high resolution/dpi displays, the magnitude of processing power required for gaming and running simple applications on the desktop is horrifically different. their APU approach would be great if gaming hasn't gone down this route and under 1080p screens were common - but they aren't (unless tablets - low end laptops which won't be gamed on). Then their APU approach is still not following their actual 'fusion' future, it still is no different then how a normal GPU and CPU work - they just slabbed both on the same die.

they talk about balance? their cpus in their apus bottleneck their gpus still. running hyrbid shows, in most cases, horrific scaling and sometimes backwards scaling, even when the game offers good multi-gpu support. AMD is still not doing it 'right' - except for this tablet+android approach. Hopefully they might shine there. On the desktop front, it's a lot better value in spending 50 bucks more for an Intel + dedicated card, let alone, on battery life too as the igp draws very little power and it's not hard to render your display resolution for basic work on that, then going the AMD direction. The tables are far too unbalanced, these days, for computation work loads required for gaming and normal media/office consumption and AMD is cutting back far too much on their CPU arch to slab in GPUs that are too powerful for basic tasks and not powerful enough for gaming. their focus on the mobile front should be like intel is, and if they want to push the APU ont he desktop, they should make ridiculously huge dies that mix the two together. having an apu with the performance of their high end FX chips while offering a HD 7870 on the die while being 400w TPD would be amazing.

You have obviously not seen any GPU-related OpenCL benches. Due to the lack of latency, the APU outshines a CPU/GPU combo of the same level. You also don't understand HUMA if you think it can be replicated with a normal CPU and GPU.

I also have yet to see a 4350 bottleneck a 6670 or even 2 6670s in crossfire (that's what Richland is), but whatever, keep up your little fantasy world...
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post #87 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

You obviously do not understand the concept of "the best".

Intel has the best IGP/CPU combo but it comes at a price.

AMD has good price/perf parts.

Why does everyone making this point get a reply about price/performance? No one is denying the price/perf. That's the entire point.
Titan is the better card. That does not mean that it has better price/perf. I just can't understand why this is such a hard concept to grasp.

Performance/TDP/efficiency:

i7 4950HQ > A10 5800K

Price/perf:

A10 5800K > i7 4950HQ

Which one is the better buy is completely subjective.

If the above is incorrect then please point out why. I don't understand why I have to explain myself 10 times on an issue this simple. With the launch of Iris Pro AMD does not have the fastest "APU" out there anymore. That is all.

Kaveri will maybe change this but we don't know yet.




I'll argue the price/performance thing with you. AMD's SOCKETED desktop chips beat the hell out of Intel's SOCKETED desktop chips in graphics performance. There's not a single SOCKETED Intel processor that has an iGPU powerful enough to compete with AMD's 8670D.

On the desktop segment, they HAVE superior graphics capabilities.


Now lets forget the price/performance argument for mobile. Yes, the 5200 Iris Pro will beat the hell out of any mobile Richland chip, HOWEVER you won't find 5200 Iris Pro in any laptop that costs less than $800. Meanwhile, the mobile Richland A10 will be found in laptops for $400 or less and directly compete with Intel's Core i3 HD4600 mobile chips.
Edited by M3T4LM4N222 - 6/6/13 at 12:58pm
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post #88 of 177
Hard to get excited for AMD's APU when Iris Pro is significantly faster and significantly more power efficient... I honestly can't wait for Broadwell.
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post #89 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by BizzareRide View Post

Hard to get excited for AMD's APU when Iris Pro is significantly faster and significantly more power efficient... I honestly can't wait for Broadwell.


Yes. It's hard to get excited when a $400 BGA part is faster than a $140 socketed part. rolleyes.gif

Iris Pro is extremely niche. I'd be right there will you and Alatar if it was offered in your LGA 1150 parts and mobile Core i3 and i5 parts.
Edited by M3T4LM4N222 - 6/6/13 at 1:07pm
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post #90 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3T4LM4N222 View Post

Yes. It's hard to get excited when a $400 part is faster than a $140 part. rolleyes.gif

biggrin.gif

I dont even know why we compare the iris with APUs. If i remember apus were affordable rolleyes.gif
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