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[zdnet] AMD demonstrates Kaveri processor at Computex today - Page 10

post #91 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

You have obviously not seen any GPU-related OpenCL benches. Due to the lack of latency, the APU outshines a CPU/GPU combo of the same level. You also don't understand HUMA if you think it can be replicated with a normal CPU and GPU.

I also have yet to see a 4350 bottleneck a 6670 or even 2 6670s in crossfire (that's what Richland is), but whatever, keep up your little fantasy world...

You are also forgetting that Richland and Trinity are VLIW, which do not do nearly as well at OpenCL as GCN. Kaveri is going to drop with GCN and it's going to be glorious, major changes. I even took the time to show you guys what we can expect going from VLIW OpenCL to GCN OpenCL.

7970 scores:


6970 scores:


As you can see, the gaming performance gains we saw going from 6970 to 7970 are not comparative to the luxmark changes. To give you an idea, GCN is almost 150% faster at OpenCL Luxmark than VLIW. GT3 just barely beat Trinity in OpenCL, and that was the entire Intel R&D force behind it and the main marketing feature of the new chips.

I don't know what is not to love about Kaveri? We are basically getting really, really close to Bullet Physics OpenCL accelerated on the APU's iGPU, a dGPU doing graphics, and the integer units and FPUs of the CPU doing the AI and all that other sort of stuff. Intel isn't going to be able to keep up with that at all.
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post #92 of 177
For those who say that APUs are worse than the Iris, I have two questions. I answer the first one for you.

Is a GTX Titan better than a Radeon 7970?

Yes.

Is the GTX Titan's performance high enough to justify its significantly higher price over the Radeon 7970 (including the Radeons' game code promotions)?


The second question you have to answer.
Edited by A Bad Day - 6/6/13 at 1:14pm
post #93 of 177
Some of you guys are all acting like a bunch of simpletons... This would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.

Alatar is only stating facts. You are stating why you think those facts are irrelevant. Neither of those things is a problem.

The problem is when you call Alatar a fanboy because of the facts that he posts that you have provided ZERO refutation for.
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post #94 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by coachmark2 View Post

Some of you guys are all acting like a bunch of simpletons... This would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.

Alatar is only stating facts. You are stating why you think those facts are irrelevant. Neither of those things is a problem.

The problem is when you call Alatar a fanboy because of the facts that he posts that you have provided ZERO refutation for.

proof.gif
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post #95 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarhell View Post

biggrin.gif

I dont even know why we compare the iris with APUs. If i remember apus were affordable rolleyes.gif

Because some people think the only way to game is if you have quad Titans with six 4K resolution screens, and mentally call others "hobo" for refusing to spend over $1000 for a desktop/laptop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by coachmark2 View Post

Some of you guys are all acting like a bunch of simpletons... This would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.

Alatar is only stating facts. You are stating why you think those facts are irrelevant. Neither of those things is a problem.

The problem is when you call Alatar a fanboy because of the facts that he posts that you have provided ZERO refutation for.

What he said:

Iris has better performance.

Price per performance doesn't matter.

APUs have no future.


Also, please answer this question:
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Bad Day View Post

For those who say that APUs are worse than the Iris, I have two questions. I answer the first one for you.

Is a GTX Titan better than a Radeon 7970?

Yes.

Is the GTX Titan's performance high enough to justify its significantly higher price over the Radeon 7970 (including the Radeons' game code promotions)?


The second question you have to answer.

Edited by A Bad Day - 6/6/13 at 1:19pm
post #96 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post

Kaveri is probably the first AMD CPU I will buy since Phenom II tongue.gif

Thanks for the thread.
Oh please, more AMD bashing?

HSA will be like Android: an open platform supported by big name companies (ARM, Samsung, Texas Instruments, Qualcomm, etc) allows for REALLY fast adoption

AMD's not going to make the same mistake as with AMD64, which didn't have 64 bit apps and a slew of other manufacturers backing them

HSA is advancement. Change is hard I know. I still have access to a IBM typewriter though for 99% of people it's useless.

Please read http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/opinion/2253532/amd-looks-to-hsa-foundation-to-avoid-amd64-mistakes

And I'll get excited for HSA when it will provide performance gains for my software. As of now it's pretty much irrelevant for the consumer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3T4LM4N222 View Post

I'll argue the price/performance thing with you. AMD's SOCKETED desktop chips beat the hell out of Intel's SOCKETED desktop chips in graphics performance. There's not a single SOCKETED Intel processor that has an iGPU powerful enough to compete with AMD's 8670D.

On the desktop segment, they HAVE superior graphics capabilities.

No one but the 0.1% who build and upgrade their own rigs cares about whether the CPU is using a proper socket or if it has just been soldered. And even in that category there are people that couldn't care less.

soldered =/= mobile exclusive

Iris pro is likely going to be used both in higher end laptops, desktop AIOs and maybe in the ultra high end, bigger ultrabooks. That covers most of the high end market that would want an APU type design. Both for desktops and mobile.
Quote:
Now lets forget the price/performance argument for mobile. Yes, the 5200 Iris Pro will beat the hell out of any mobile Richland chip, HOWEVER you won't find 5200 Iris Pro in any laptop that costs less than $800. Meanwhile, the mobile Richland A10 will be found in laptops for $400 or less and directly compete with Intel's Core i3 HD4600 mobile chips.

And no one has argued against this price/performance point. Yet it's always the response.

All I'm saying is that right now intel has superior igpu performance much like how Nvidia has superior GPU performance. That does not make AMD products bad buys but it does mean that statements about intel sucking at igps and being years behind amd, or "polished turd is still a turd" are now out of date. Intel has the IGP performance crown. And as I've said many times that might change but right now the performance crown is theirs, which means that AMD products will now compete with price/performance.

We'll wait for Kaveri but AMD is starting to have a proper battle at their hands. Especially when HSA is very much a concept at this point when it comes to real life usage.
 
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post #97 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

And I'll get excited for HSA when it will provide performance gains for my software. As of now it's pretty much irrelevant for the consumer.
No one but the 0.1% who build and upgrade their own rigs cares about whether the CPU is using a proper socket or if it has just been soldered. And even in that category there are people that couldn't care less.

soldered =/= mobile exclusive

Iris pro is likely going to be used both in higher end laptops, desktop AIOs and maybe in the ultra high end, bigger ultrabooks. That covers most of the high end market that would want an APU type design. Both for desktops and mobile.
And no one has argued against this price/performance point. Yet it's always the response.

All I'm saying is that right now intel has superior igpu performance much like how Nvidia has superior GPU performance. That does not make AMD products bad buys but it does mean that statements about intel sucking at igps and being years behind amd, or "polished turd is still a turd" are now out of date. Intel has the IGP performance crown. And as I've said many times that might change but right now the performance crown is theirs, which means that AMD products will now compete with price/performance.

We'll wait for Kaveri but AMD is starting to have a proper battle at their hands. Especially when HSA is very much a concept at this point when it comes to real life usage.


But WE are the 0.1% and WE are the ones having the discussion. Not your general consumer.

However I will agree with you Alatar, the Iris Pro iGPU is the fastest iGPU available right now. I will also say it's wrong to say a "Polish turd is still a turd" I won't argue that Iris Pro isn't impressive. My argument is simply that it's a niche product since it's only offered on such expensive parts, so it shouldn't be compared with Richland.
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post #98 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Bad Day View Post

What he said:

Iris has better performance.

Price per performance doesn't matter.

APUs have no future.


Also, please answer this question:

So the guy with the 3930k and the Titan claiming price doesn't matter means that price not mattering is a fact? Well then, why aren't we all using Intel Extreme Editions with 4 Titans?

Out of all of those, only one of those is (arguably) a fact, the other two are opinion.

I asked who would buy GT3 for the given price when it does what a cheaper product does, or when you can get a 4670k and a dGPU for the same price? http://blogs.nvidia.com/2013/05/qa-why-gamers-still-need-a-discrete-gpu-with-haswell/

Even Nvidia isn't buying this at all.
Quote:
OEMs don’t seem all that impressed with GT3e, as it’s power hungry and expensive. We expect only a tiny number of notebooks will come with GT3e.

Which PC OEMs will be offering Haswell notebooks with discrete GPUs?

Haas: Every major PC OEM will be offering notebooks with Haswell and discrete NVIDIA GPUs.

Do you know why that is? It's because AMD APUs cover the low end (for now), Nvidia covers the high end (with AMD dGPUs), and Haswell GT3 is performs to fill the low end and it's priced like the high end (at least in mobile).

As for APUs not being the future, AMD has HSA and is pushing it in Xbone and PS4. If any of those products succeed, AMD will have a large install base of HSA devices running HSA software on an APU, so I'm not quite sure where you're getting APUs failing.

But I give you 1/10 for making me respond to you stating opinions as fact. Opinions do get thrown around here, but at least most people don't blatantly call them facts as some sort of last resort of either being too academically lazy or stupid to make a reasonable arguing to support your opinion.
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post #99 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Bad Day View Post

Because some people think the only way to game is if you have quad Titans with six 4K resolution screens, and mentally call others "hobo" for refusing to spend over $1000 for a desktop/laptop.
What he said:

Iris has better performance.

Price per performance doesn't matter.

APUs have no future.


Also, please answer this question:

Nowhere have I said or even implied the bolded statements.

As for your question, whether something is worth it or not is subjective and depends on the person. There is no correct answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3T4LM4N222 View Post

But WE are the 0.1% and WE are the ones having the discussion. Not your general consumer.

However I will agree with you Alatar, the Iris Pro iGPU is the fastest iGPU available right now. I will also say it's wrong to say a "Polish turd is still a turd" I won't argue that Iris Pro isn't impressive. My argument is simply that it's a niche product since it's only offered on such expensive parts.

Well as I've tried saying Iris pro covers the high end needs for an APU type product. AIOs, macbooks, imacs, higher end laptops, and high end bigger ultrabooks. Whether you want to call that niche is your choice but what it is not is more niche than desktop APUs used for gaming.

Also, yes I'm aware a lot of OCNers do care but not all of us. For my APUs I would not care at all about BGA since the only reason I would want an APU design would be to lower the power consumption of the device. All the devices where I would need that would use BGA anyways.

Anything I can upgrade myself and would need GPU power I'm always going to have a discrete card in.
 
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post #100 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

And I'll get excited for HSA when it will provide performance gains for my software. As of now it's pretty much irrelevant for the consumer.
No one but the 0.1% who build and upgrade their own rigs cares about whether the CPU is using a proper socket or if it has just been soldered. And even in that category there are people that couldn't care less.

soldered =/= mobile exclusive

Iris pro is likely going to be used both in higher end laptops, desktop AIOs and maybe in the ultra high end, bigger ultrabooks. That covers most of the high end market that would want an APU type design. Both for desktops and mobile.
And no one has argued against this price/performance point. Yet it's always the response.

All I'm saying is that right now intel has superior igpu performance much like how Nvidia has superior GPU performance. That does not make AMD products bad buys but it does mean that statements about intel sucking at igps and being years behind amd, or "polished turd is still a turd" are now out of date. Intel has the IGP performance crown. And as I've said many times that might change but right now the performance crown is theirs, which means that AMD products will now compete with price/performance.

We'll wait for Kaveri but AMD is starting to have a proper battle at their hands. Especially when HSA is very much a concept at this point when it comes to real life usage.

Again, technically you are correct. But to say Intel has better iGPU performance because of ONE niche chip is really a marketing phrase. To say Chevy's get better gas mileage than Toyotas when Chevy really only has one car that beats everyone in mpg is a twisting of the facts.
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [zdnet] AMD demonstrates Kaveri processor at Computex today