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[TT]Crucial and Micron give us the low-down on the current state of DDR4 memory, with nice pictures of course - Page 4

post #31 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by akromatic View Post

i think intel is wiser with shared 128mb L4 cache for iris pro graphics

If we are to guess that AMD used some of the technology from the PS4 APU onto Kaveri, it has cache coherency down to L2.
   
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post #32 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post

I think the main reason you wont see, as a consumer, the difference is application. Not directly software but related. Hardware is always ahead of software, where the application of the hardware lacks.

Point, it will help only once software can take advantage of those benifits.

The APUs would like to speak to you.
post #33 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

Almost every fresh new technology comes around to help servers. tongue.gif

But when it finally trickles down into the mainstream, watch as people can't get enough.

I would even like to extend your sentiment. Pretty much every new revision of interface technology that comes out is met with roars of "meh" by the overclocker community. AGP to PCIe had people saying AGP was just fine. PCIe Gen 1 to PCIe Gen 2 had people saying 1.x was just fine. PCIe Gen 2 to PCIe Gen 3 has people saying that right now--they don't see the point. The same is true of virtually every memory technology change. SDRAM vs DDR, DDR vs DDR2, DDR2 vs DDR3, and now DDR3 vs DDR4 has people saying "it seems unnecessary".

My point is that the progression is slow and the benefits aren't always the most interesting or exciting thing in the room, so they often aren't noticed. Over time though, it's easier to see that things were clearly improving all along and more importantly that it was indeed necessary. If you were to take a modern system and re-engineer it to have an AGP bus instead of PCIe and drop DDR3 support in favor of SDRAM, people might finally appreciate these sorts of changes even if they rarely ever do at the time.
post #34 of 46
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by overclockerjames View Post

posted June 6th, 2013
http://www.tweaktown.com/news/30848/crucial-and-micron-give-us-the-low-down-on-the-current-state-of-ddr4-memory-with-nice-pictures-of-course/index.html
i've been holding out with ddr2, running 4x2gb = 8gb, but with 1x8gb DDR3 costing only $46 it's getting tough, I would love to turn off virtual memory but would want at least 16gb to do that. Been thinking DDR4 was right around the corner considering DDR3 is from 2007 and DDR2 was only out 3 years before DDR3 came out but with this news I don't think I can wait much longer, but that means new board and ram, $200+ investment...

reason I didn't go with DDR3 initally was because it was much more expensive and DDR3 didn't make a difference vs DDR2, but now that it's cheap and DDR2 is expensive seems like it's better to upgrade to DDR3 now, DDR4 will probably be very expensive when it comes out too

anyone else holding on to old ddr2 or did everyone already leap to ddr3? Any opinions on this matter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Particle View Post

I would even like to extend your sentiment. Pretty much every new revision of interface technology that comes out is met with roars of "meh" by the overclocker community. AGP to PCIe had people saying AGP was just fine. PCIe Gen 1 to PCIe Gen 2 had people saying 1.x was just fine. PCIe Gen 2 to PCIe Gen 3 has people saying that right now--they don't see the point. The same is true of virtually every memory technology change. SDRAM vs DDR, DDR vs DDR2, DDR2 vs DDR3, and now DDR3 vs DDR4 has people saying "it seems unnecessary".

My point is that the progression is slow and the benefits aren't always the most interesting or exciting thing in the room, so they often aren't noticed. Over time though, it's easier to see that things were clearly improving all along and more importantly that it was indeed necessary. If you were to take a modern system and re-engineer it to have an AGP bus instead of PCIe and drop DDR3 support in favor of SDRAM, people might finally appreciate these sorts of changes even if they rarely ever do at the time.

I'm still on DDR2 too :/
But I'm not in much of a hurry, 2gb of ddr2 and 4gb of virtual memory are serving me well enough for now.
I think I'm on the boat waiting for DDR4 then.
post #35 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

That eDRAM really drives up the price though.

Also, that L4 is for both the CPU and GPU!

128MB is overkill as a level cache and Intel admits it as the hitrate is only 5% for the CPU; 128MB is still overkill for the GPU as all you need for a 1080p frame buffer and its associated buffers is 32MB(It's the very reason Xbox One has just 32MB of SRAM)

No doubt there are redundancies built into their 128MB of cache for unknown future demands. The good news is that the daughter die is cost reducible for Intel, so it won't cost the same when they move it to a new process.
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post #36 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by BizzareRide View Post

128MB is overkill as a level cache and Intel admits it as the hitrate is only 5% for the CPU; 128MB is still overkill for the GPU as all you need for a 1080p frame buffer and its associated buffers is 32MB(It's the very reason Xbox One has just 32MB of SRAM)

No doubt there are redundancies built into their 128MB of cache for unknown future demands. The good news is that the daughter die is cost reducible for Intel, so it won't cost the same when they move it to a new process.

Anand actually discussed this exact topic in his review of Haswell Iris Pro review. However, I can imagine a few HPC applications that may actually benefit from the L4. I wouldn't be surprised to see maybe a few Xeon SKUs with the eDRAM.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6993/intel-iris-pro-5200-graphics-review-core-i74950hq-tested/3
Quote:
There’s only a single size of eDRAM offered this generation: 128MB. Since it’s a cache and not a buffer (and a giant one at that), Intel found that hit rate rarely dropped below 95%. It turns out that for current workloads, Intel didn’t see much benefit beyond a 32MB eDRAM however it wanted the design to be future proof. Intel doubled the size to deal with any increases in game complexity, and doubled it again just to be sure. I believe the exact wording Intel’s Tom Piazza used during his explanation of why 128MB was “go big or go home”. It’s very rare that we see Intel be so liberal with die area, which makes me think this 128MB design is going to stick around for a while.

The 32MB number is particularly interesting because it’s the same number Microsoft arrived at for the embedded SRAM on the Xbox One silicon. If you felt that I was hinting heavily at the Xbox One being ok if its eSRAM was indeed a cache, this is why. I’d also like to point out the difference in future proofing between the two designs.
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post #37 of 46
Heh, I went from DDR400 to DDR3 1333 when I went from a 3.1GHz P4 to a Phenom II 955BE tongue.gif

My next upgrade is going to come with AMDs next generation of CPUs, whenever that is. And if DDR4 is around the corner and we have numbers it may make me wait if the numbers are good enough.
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post #38 of 46
The only reason DDR4 would be useful is for an APU. DDR3 is already faster than we need for anything that isn't an APU.
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post #39 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by lapengu View Post

The only reason DDR4 would be useful is for an APU. DDR3 is already faster than we need for anything that isn't an APU.

DDR4 uses less power, easier to increase densities, easier to increase DIMMs, and there are memory clock constraint applications.
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post #40 of 46
I'm definitely upgrading to ddr4 when it launches, I hope they also improve latency, I would love fast memory with low latency... There have been improvements in the data transfer protocol, that should make things better..
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [TT]Crucial and Micron give us the low-down on the current state of DDR4 memory, with nice pictures of course