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[PCG] AMD say “PC ports of next-generation console titles are likely to struggle” on Intel IGP - Page 18

post #171 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

After reading most responses in this thread, I think people aren't seeing the whole picture. Mobile APU's are not the target here, and I think there is some validity to AMD's statement.

The "Jaguar" cores along with GCN cores on the PS4 are going to be different from any APU that is currently on the market, so they really cannot be compared to current products. Even the newest A10-6800K cannot be put up for comparison simply because the 6800K has 4 physical cores while the APU in the PS4 will have 8. Games on the PS4 will be designed to be highly threaded, which means AMD chips with many CPU cores should run very well. The optimization for AMD-based architectures, both CPU and GPU, should give people with AMD-based APUs a leg up in performance. Will it be enough to give AMD the edge in performance? I have no clue. Only time will tell on that one.

No one is going to deny that at the moment, Intel has the better chips. The Iris Pro is in a class of its own for an integrated graphics solution, but as many have pointed out, the package it comes on is significantly more expensive too. When you compared like-priced APU's from AMD and Intel, AMD wins very convincingly on the GPU side of things while Intel has the better CPU package. We'll see where things go from here, but I doubt AMD would announce something like this if they weren't fairly confident in the results.

Untrue actually, Kabini and Temash are both Jaguar/GCN based. Number of cores, be them CPU or GPU, does not matter. The arch does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by d-block View Post

I'll believe it when I see it.

You're asking for proof that Intel's IGP, which can't even play today's games well, is going to have problems with next gen games? Really?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeofdoom View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kand View Post

Aren't "Jaguar" cores an architecture derived from Bobcat?



http://www.anandtech.com/show/6974/amd-kabini-review/3

I don't know, but 4 Jaguar cores don't seem too impressive. What more 8?

Dell XPS 12 is running a dual core i5-3317u.

Mind you, that sample is running 1.5GHz, while the PS4/XBone supposedly runs at 2. Also, double the cores on the side.

They run at 1.6Ghz.

But that's fine, because CPUs won't be doing most of the work. The GPU will. HSA, remember?
Quote:
Originally Posted by edo101 View Post

Im not a fanboy but thats not gonna help AMD in any significant way. I feel like most people that play PC games actually get independent graphics cards

No, because "Gamer" does not equal "Enthusiast".

Most gamers are your average user. They buy Dell, or HP, or Gateway and make do with what they have and live on, not knowing or caring to know that there's better out there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by os2wiz View Post

You mean the poorly programmed single-threaded games that are going to be history in another year. AMD has the hottest games coming out and when the console games are ported to pc they will kick Haswells skinny-butt. You spout the same old mantras and don't see where the direction of computing is going, including software development and specifically gaming development. Of course Intel will fund some backwards jerks to produce single-threaded games but with a few exceptions they won't perform as well and will ultimately lose the interest of gamers. Keep up your sorry excuses, you are only fooling yourself.
...Intel has spent more money on programs to teach and encourage multi-thread than AMD for the last 5+ years. Intel greatly benefits from more parallel code since they own the CPU market.

FPS game development is inherently lightly threaded due to real-time input from the user. Other game genres like RTS are heavily threaded due to AI.

AMD and Intel using x86 are pretty standardized... most of the porting differences will be in the video and memory subsystems, not CPU.

And yet, I feel this need to point at Crysis 3 and Starcraft 2. tongue.gif
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post #172 of 248
If you are expecting to play games without buying a graphics card, it's your problem.
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post #173 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by HanSomPa View Post

No it's not a moronic notion. Console games are made in a different way than PC games. It will be tailored specifically to squeeze every ounce of horsepower out of AMD"s chipset. So in reality, support and drivers will be a lot better on AMD parts than on similar competitive parts. It's a big deal, not everyone has the hardware to overcome non-optimized applications. Your point about "shutting out 82% of the users" out there isn't valid either. Console developers are focused on consoles. They don't care anywhere near as much about the 82% that run Nvidia or Intel graphics. If anything this should encourage more people to buy Fusion powered laptops and desktop parts.

Just because they are using AMD hardware on the next-gen consoles doesn't mean jack crap when they both have to be coded to the directX API (of which the PS4 will NOT support as its an MS product). People seem to forget that they do not code directly to hardware! They program through the API which in the case of the PC is predominantly DirectX and requires separate optimisations to directly coding to the GCN architecture itself.

Apart from that, the PS4 will not support DirectX and as such, AMD will see NO direct advantage over Nvidia or Intel. They may get access to driver optimisations early but I highly doubt it. As a developer you want to reach as broad audience as possible, just because a select few developers didn't give a toss about PC development doesn't mean the sole focus is on consoles. In fact recent times have shown that PC is becoming an ever more popular gaming platform and quite a financially successful one too.
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post #174 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vengeance47 View Post

Just because they are using AMD hardware on the next-gen consoles doesn't mean jack crap when they both have to be coded to the directX API (of which the PS4 will NOT support as its an MS product). People seem to forget that they do not code directly to hardware! They program through the API which in the case of the PC is predominantly DirectX and requires separate optimisations to directly coding to the GCN architecture itself.

Apart from that, the PS4 will not support DirectX and as such, AMD will see NO direct advantage over Nvidia or Intel. They may get access to driver optimisations early but I highly doubt it. As a developer you want to reach as broad audience as possible, just because a select few developers didn't give a toss about PC development doesn't mean the sole focus is on consoles. In fact recent times have shown that PC is becoming an ever more popular gaming platform and quite a financially successful one too.

You guys dont read anything about HSA and hUMA? I bet no
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post #175 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by xBlitzerx View Post

If you are expecting to play games without buying a graphics card, it's your problem.

But you can play games without buying a graphics card tongue.gif
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post #176 of 248
I hope next gen games require more power than you get from integrated graphics rolleyes.gif ... and this includes current APUs
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post #177 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post


...

And yet, I feel this need to point at Crysis 3 and Starcraft 2. tongue.gif

Well it's no secret that Blizzard isn't necessarily using the fanciest game engines. All they are concerned with s that they're games will run on almost any PC. ...That said you could replace Starcraft 2 with Shogun 2 and it would remain completely true.
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post #178 of 248
jerry.gif
post #179 of 248

Well in my opinion AMD hardware will most likely work better with ports from next gen consoles, but mostly on the GPU side so Nvidia vs AMD, since AMD will mostlikely have better optimized Drivers, not sure how the CPUs will fare but since next Gen is Multi-thread, Intel HT might come in handy and perform just has well has the AMD 8 core CPUs.

I might actually change to AMD Video Cards if they perform better then Nvidia, might find another home for my GTX 670 and get a 8970, but lets see how Current hardware handles next gen games 1st.

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post #180 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deacon View Post

Well in my opinion AMD hardware will most likely work better with ports from next gen consoles, but mostly on the GPU side so Nvidia vs AMD, since AMD will mostlikely have better optimized Drivers, not sure how the CPUs will fare but since next Gen is Multi-thread, Intel HT might come in handy and perform just has well has the AMD 8 core CPUs.
I might actually change to AMD Video Cards if they perform better then Nvidia, might find another home for my GTX 670 and get a 8970, but lets see how Current hardware handles next gen games 1st.

Personally, when software can use 8 cores, I'd prefer 8 weak cores over 4 strong and 4 "fake" ones. Obviously there is a line for that. But considering FX Visheras are competing with SB chips and cheaper (for those that don't live near a MC... so 99% of us tongue.gif ) I think AMD is gonna be in a pretty strong position for gaming. And considering the gains from SB to Ivy almost equal out when you factor in OC potential and IPC, and that HW looks to be almost no improvement over Ivy, aside from power consumption, but at the same time lowering OC potential and increasing heat, I think AMD is even now in a pretty good spot.
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