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[PCG] AMD say “PC ports of next-generation console titles are likely to struggle” on Intel IGP - Page 20

post #191 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by phill1978 View Post

Personally I don't agree with AMD's arrogance on this (very un-amd like, they are obviously a bit sore from beatings). From my perspective one of the most important gaming platforms of the future will be Linux and APU's are a good at the moment for a low cost platform (by not paying $$ for a MS OS). Console game will mostly be OpenGL so ports that come out on steam will in theory be compatible with Linux over time. AMD has neglected Linux as a platform, their official driver is terrible still in 2013, not just 3D but 2D aswell they seem to forget that xboxone is microsoft and that microsoft want to world dominate the console and pc games market.. which means edging steam as a platform into uncomfortable territory.
When people do move to Linux I can tell you right now that the Intel haswel APU urinates on an a10-5800k from a large height, its shouldn't but it does. In fact the Intel Linux driver is very good indeed and it plays nicer than dedicated cards!

I forgot to mention Nvidia, they also have a great (albeit closed) Linux Driver. I dont see any reason for AMD to be smug here

Linux, linux, linux.

Linux is (sadly) entirely irrelevant in the gaming department.
   
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post #192 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post

Linux, linux, linux.

Linux is (sadly) entirely irrelevant in the gaming department.

maybe for you. An APU is the sort of component used in a Linux build.

If you want to talk big DX11 games then why is anyone even considering an APU and why is this news>?

just get a dedicated card and a separate cpu.
post #193 of 248
I wish this would get off the news feed
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post #194 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3T4LM4N222 View Post

AMD = 10,000 employees split between all departments, CPU, GPU, ect

Intel = 100,000 employees split between all departments, CPU, SSD, ect

Stop throwing that to justify everything, Bulldozer for instance failed because of their decisions and nothing else than that. It's like saying HTC's actually losing vs. Samsung because Samsung's a bigger company.

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/100583-analyzing-bulldozers-scaling-single-thread-performance
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20111013232215_Ex_AMD_Engineer_Explains_Bulldozer_Fiasco.html
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post #195 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otterclock View Post

Yeah. I'm not sure what that AMD rep was trying to say. Was he pointing out that Intel's IGP for PC fails extra-hard compared to AMD's? I guess that's technically a win.
Well they might think Kaveri or their adjusted PS4 APU will be good enough to do so.
The moment games run smooth enough on 8 jaguar cores is the day that a lot of low budget pc gamers will make the switch I guess.
post #196 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

Nope, HD5200 is faster than the fastest AMD IGPs.

Expensive. But faster.

I'll be pointing till the cows come home it seems. Until we see igpu parts being tested while every other part involved being identical ,we can't call one igpu faster than the other with certainty. I don't care what anandtech or tom's or obama says, stating that iris 5200 is faster than 7660D when the one is run on an i7 and the other on an A10 is like saying that a 7870/7970/what have you (paired with an i5) is faster than a 770/780/Titan (paired with a celeron) because it produces better framerates. Absurd.
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post #197 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

I'll be pointing till the cows come home it seems. Until we see igpu parts being tested while every other part involved being identical ,we can't call one igpu faster than the other with certainty. I don't care what anandtech or tom's or obama says, stating that iris 5200 is faster than 7660D when the one is run on an i7 and the other on an A10 is like saying that a 7870/7970/what have you (paired with an i5) is faster than a 770/780/Titan (paired with a celeron) because it produces better framerates. Absurd.

You're not going to see over 30% increase with puny little GPUs going from Piledriver cores at around 4GHz to Haswell cores at around 3.5GHz....

In the games that anand for example tested you wouldn't even see more than a couple of per cent (if that) with something like a 7970.

Theoretically you're correct in saying that the platforms should be identical but these parts don't exist in a vacuum. However in real life the argument makes no sense. First of all as I said, with these kinds of GPUs the difference the CPU makes is almost insignificant. And secondly you can't get the AMD IGP with an intel GPU. So even a theoretical test with the AMD IGP ran with an intel CPU would have absolutely nothing to do with real life performance.

So we're left with the same fact; Intel has the fastest APU.
 
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post #198 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

You're not going to see over 30% increase with puny little GPUs going from Piledriver cores at around 4GHz to Haswell cores at around 3.5GHz....

In the games that anand for example tested you wouldn't even see more than a couple of per cent (if that) with something like a 7970.

Theoretically you're correct in saying that the platforms should be identical but these parts don't exist in a vacuum. However in real life the argument makes no sense. First of all as I said, with these kinds of GPUs the difference the CPU makes is almost insignificant. And secondly you can't get the AMD IGP with an intel GPU. So even a theoretical test with the AMD IGP ran with an intel CPU would have absolutely nothing to do with real life performance.

So we're left with the same fact; Intel has the fastest APU.


You simply do not know whether CPU difference is insignificant or not. You just assume,we can discuss it again and again but until benched properly we do not know. The closest we can get to knowing igpu strength is to find (through testing) which discreet gpu performs similarily to 5200 (when paired with the particular i7) or the 7660D (when paired with the A10). For the A10 it seems to be a 6670 DDR3 and techreport has hinted that 5200 is slightly better than a 6570 ,hence 6670 territory again. It is a very iffy way but it is as close as it gets.
And I agree that the theoretical scenario/test of an AMD igpu on a intel cpu and vice versa would have absolutely nothing to do with real life performance. Still I feel obliged to point the fallacy of this type of claims, that one igpu is faster than another when they are on totally different platforms. APU has to be seen as a whole. Right now the fastest one IS i7-4950hq and we will all agree. But it has to be seen as whole and evaluated for what it is, its specs,its price,its availability,its focus,its competition.
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post #199 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

You simply do not know whether CPU difference is insignificant or not. You just assume,we can discuss it again and again but until benched properly we do not know. The closest we can get to knowing igpu strength is to find (through testing) which discreet gpu performs similarily to 5200 (when paired with the particular i7) or the 7660D (when paired with the A10). For the A10 it seems to be a 6670 DDR3 and techreport has hinted that 5200 is slightly better than a 6570 ,hence 6670 territory again. It is a very iffy way but it is as close as it gets.
And I agree that the theoretical scenario/test of an AMD igpu on a intel cpu and vice versa would have absolutely nothing to do with real life performance. Still I feel obliged to point the fallacy of this type of claims, that one igpu is faster than another when they are on totally different platforms. APU has to be seen as a whole. Right now the fastest one IS i7-4950hq and we will all agree. But it has to be seen as whole and evaluated for what it is, its specs,its price,its availability,its focus,its competition.
That would be the 4900HQ if I'm correct the one you named has 4600 graphics.
The charts posted where with the 5800K instead of the 6800K so there might be a few fps in that also the slower memory explains a bit and the slower cpu also does.
I think we can asume that the 6800K APU is at fast or faster than the 5200 iris pro especailly if it would have faster ram.
post #200 of 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

You simply do not know whether CPU difference is insignificant or not. You just assume,we can discuss it again and again but until benched properly we do not know. The closest we can get to knowing igpu strength is to find (through testing) which discreet gpu performs similarily to 5200 (when paired with the particular i7) or the 7660D (when paired with the A10). For the A10 it seems to be a 6670 DDR3 and techreport has hinted that 5200 is slightly better than a 6570 ,hence 6670 territory again. It is a very iffy way but it is as close as it gets.
And I agree that the theoretical scenario/test of an AMD igpu on a intel cpu and vice versa would have absolutely nothing to do with real life performance. Still I feel obliged to point the fallacy of this type of claims, that one igpu is faster than another when they are on totally different platforms. APU has to be seen as a whole. Right now the fastest one IS i7-4950hq and we will all agree. But it has to be seen as whole and evaluated for what it is, its specs,its price,its availability,its focus,its competition.

But none of this matters because the IGPs come with the CPUs that they were tested with. Anyways, with a difference of over 30%, yes it is extremely reasonable to assume that the HD5200 is the faster IGP.

It's like saying that theoretically it's possible that the Titan is 35% faster than the 7970GHz because of the 3GB of extra memory. It's possible in theory but there's absolutely no proof to support the conclusion. Quite the opposite actually. Arguing that the CPU will make a 35% difference in GPU bound games is pretty much the same thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 View Post

That would be the 4900HQ if I'm correct the one you named has 4600 graphics.
The charts posted where with the 5800K instead of the 6800K so there might be a few fps in that also the slower memory explains a bit and the slower cpu also does.
I think we can asume that the 6800K APU is at fast or faster than the 5200 iris pro especailly if it would have faster ram.

No we can't.... All tests of the HD5200 show it as around 30% faster than the A10-5800K.

I mean look at your argument:

"4950HQ is over 30% faster than the 5800K in games so we can safely assume that the 6800K that's as fast as a 5800K is faster than the HD5200"

I'm sorry but what?

Next we'll also assume that the 7970 is faster than the Titan?
 
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