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Is there anything wrong in PC gaming on TVs? - Page 2

post #11 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by ez12a View Post

depending on the TV there could be some input lag.
Hm...I will just say that this has not been the case on any of the 3 TVs I've done this with. It might happen if you have several boxes that the signal goes through.
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post #12 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katana View Post

Hm...I will just say that this has not been the case on any of the 3 TVs I've done this with. It might happen if you have several boxes that the signal goes through.

Panasonic LED TV here. Definately input lag on it. Monitor is way more responsive.
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post #13 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomSG View Post

Panasonic LED TV here. Definately input lag on it. Monitor is way more responsive.

LEDs have by far the worst response times. While Plasma is by far the best, is pretty much non-existant. I have a plasma panasonic and there is 0 input lag. The only down side to plasmas, is image retention, but I've never had an issue with mine.

EDIT: Also... not to confuse response time with input lag... they are both totally different things. thumb.gif

Input lag vs response time.
Edited by Derko1 - 6/7/13 at 5:22pm
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post #14 of 34
PC gaming on a Plasma does not work. The kind of crisp, high speed motion you get from PC gaming brings out a bunch of flaws in the technology. When people say Plasma is 'faster' or 'better at motion' than LCD, this only true up to a certain threshold. It's true within the realms of TV, film and console games. PC gaming is completely different - it's way past that threshold, and Plasma cannot cope. Subfield driving techniques result in a horribly warped image during fast motion, and variances in subpixel phosphor decay produces colour fringing on objects/'rainbow' effects. These kinds of phenomena are not usually apparent in console gaming, where framerates are typically low, and the controller restricts panning speeds.

The old image retention argument still holds water also. Many people would say it's a non issue in modern Plasmas, but this is not true. Some Plasmas are better than others, but it just becomes another thing you have to worry about, and removing static HUDs/crosshairs from games is harder than you would expect.

And then there's the whole chroma subsampling thing. Very few Plasmas can actually do 4:4:4.

Dithering should not be underestimated either.

Last year I purchased a Plasma specifically for the purpose of using it as a PC gaming monitor. It didn't take me long at all to figure out that it was a lost cause.

I would not recommend LCD TVs for PC gaming either. Just stick with monitors.
Edited by Oubadah - 6/7/13 at 5:47pm
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post #15 of 34
I used to game on a 46" Samsung when I was borrowing the TV from my brother. It was indeed quite enjoyable! thumb.gif Only issue I think this would cause is more stress on the GPU.


Resolution size really depends on the viewing depth. Your not going to want a 32"+ monitor 3 feet away from you, because you'll notice all sorts of graphical distortion when gaming. I know from experience. I had a 2012 32" Samsung.

If you want to go for a high resolution monitor, 30"+, try and go for one that has a resolution higher than 1080P as well.
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post #16 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oubadah View Post

PC gaming on a Plasma does not work. The kind of crisp, high speed motion you get from PC gaming brings out a bunch of flaws in the technology. When people say Plasma is 'faster' or 'better at motion' than LCD, this only true up to a certain threshold. It's true within the realms of TV, film and console games. PC gaming is completely different - it's way past that threshold, and Plasma cannot cope. Subfield driving techniques result in a horribly warped image during fast motion, and variances in subpixel phosphor decay produces colour fringing on objects/'rainbow' effects. These kinds of phenomena are not usually apparent in console gaming, where framerates are typically low, and the controller restricts panning speeds.

The old image retention argument still holds water also. Many people would say it's a non issue in modern Plasmas, but this is not true. Some Plasmas are better than others, but it just becomes another thing you have to worry about, and removing static HUDs/crosshairs from games is harder than you would expect.

And then there's the whole chroma subsampling thing. Very few Plasmas can actually do 4:4:4.

Dithering should not be underestimated either.

Last year I purchased a Plasma specifically for the purpose of using it as a PC gaming monitor. It didn't take me long at all to figure out that it was a lost cause.

I would not recommend LCD TVs for PC gaming either. Just stick with monitors.

Huh.... funny. I guess that's why I've never had any issues. I use a VT25 and have never noticed any of the things you mention... and yes my TV does do chroma subsampling.

Any links to the stuff you're talking about?
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post #17 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derko1 View Post

Huh.... funny. I guess that's why I've never had any issues. I use a VT25 and have never noticed any of the things you mention... and yes my TV does do chroma subsampling.

Any links to the stuff you're talking about?

This is my personal experience with Panasonic V20 and UT50 neoplasmas. The subfield thing is tricky. It's difficult to capture on camera. I think someone managed to get it with a tracking camera, but I can't remember where that was. I have a simulation of what you actually see, this is what happens with Oblivion at 60Hz, 60fps panning rapidly to the right with a mouse:



Darker areas of the scene will appear to lag behind brighter areas, so you will often see vertical references 'warping'. This also means that bright objects on dark backgrounds will appear to be 'floating'. Even my brother acknowledged this, an he's not particularly tuned to this sort of thing (admittedly it didn't bother him much).

Are you sure the VT25 actually displays 4:4:4? Just because it supports the signal doesn't mean that's what you see. You can check with this comb test:


Edited by Oubadah - 6/7/13 at 6:23pm
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post #18 of 34
The only reason I don't game on the TV is because I can't sit upright to control the keyboard and mouse. It's either gotta be on my lap or I have to be hunched over the coffee table and I can't play like that. I do play the occasional game of dirt, grid and (very rarely) fifa, because I prefer using a controller for those anyway. Sometimes even GTA
    
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post #19 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oubadah View Post

This is my personal experience with Panasonic V20 and UT50 neoplasmas. The subfield thing is tricky. It's difficult to capture on camera. I think someone managed to get it with a tracking camera, but I can't remember where that was. I have a simulation of what you actually see, this is what happens with Oblivion at 60Hz, 60fps panning rapidly to the right with a mouse:



Darker areas of the scene will appear to lag behind brighter areas, so you will often see vertical references 'warping'. This also means that bright objects on dark backgrounds will appear to be 'floating'. Even my brother acknowledged this, an he's not particularly tuned to this sort of thing (admittedly it didn't bother him much).

Are you sure the VT25 actually displays 4:4:4? Just because it supports the signal doesn't mean that's what you see. You can check with this comb test:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


AH! Then yea... I TOTALLY do not have that issue.

Also, yes, I've done the test, that's how I now it supports it. All VT line plasmas from VT10 up have supported it. I think that this is one of the reasons why the VT series is by far one of the most expensive consumer line plasmas.

+rep for teaching me something new. With my personal experience, I've always suggested people use plasmas, so now I understand that it has a lot to do with the quality of the one you get. Since I was simply going by my model and my personal experience. thumb.gif

Edit: BTW... this where I've gone through majority of the tests and have passed. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1381724/official-4-4-4-chroma-subsampling-thread#post_21386797
Edited by Derko1 - 6/7/13 at 6:43pm
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post #20 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleckazee View Post

The only reason I don't game on the TV is because I can't sit upright to control the keyboard and mouse. It's either gotta be on my lap or I have to be hunched over the coffee table and I can't play like that.

I never had an issue. I just put a plank bridging the two arms of my armchair, and that brought my arms to the same level as they are at my desk. There are plenty of options for a couch eg:



The only irritation I had was the wires from my mouse and keyboard, but most people would be happy with wireless, so that's a non issue.

Honestly, with the TV and armchair I kept a better posture than I do at my desk, where I tend to slump forward.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derko1 View Post

AH! Then yea... I TOTALLY do not have that issue.

I don't believe for a second that the VT25 doesn't do it. I think you're just not the kind of person who sees it, like all the people who never notice the scan-out warping on standard computer monitors. If the V20 did it, and the VT25 and UT50 didn't do it, it might make sense - the T models are the 3D TVs with faster phosphors. But if the UT50 does it and so does the VT50, so I guarantee you the VT25 does as well.

Interesting that you say the VT25 can reproduce 4:4:4 properly when neither the VT20, nor the VT30 did...
Edited by Oubadah - 6/7/13 at 7:06pm
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