Overclock.net › Forums › Cooling › Water Cooling › Nickel + Silver coil or PT nuke? feser corrosion blocker + nickel? Confused...please help.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Nickel + Silver coil or PT nuke? feser corrosion blocker + nickel? Confused...please help.

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 
Hi all,

After reading allot of forums regarding ISSUES with nickel plated blocks + silver kill coil or pt nuke since they stain or gunking your blocks im a bit confused because some say there is no problem while others had horror stories....
Now im contemplating using all copper based blocks with an anti corrosion additive and distilled water....

Ive also researched tubing and the plastisizer issue so went ahead and ordered Tygon R6012 Norprene tubing (which has no plastisizer issue as others have confirmed this even after long periods of time) together with plain distilled water the only problem now is what kind of additive i should use if il use a nickel plated cpu and gpu block? Remember i only want a clean loop no dye and the case is closed no sunlight. Should i go ahead and use a silver kill coil or should i use something like this: Mayhems Biocide Extreme or PT nuke but then again pt nuke doesnt go well with nickel...

So i post some options:

1: all nickel plated blocks + Silver kill coil?

2: all nickel plated blocks + PHN PT Nuke (PHN is more suited for nickel right?)?

3: all nickel plated blocks + Mayhems Biocide Extreme?

4: all nickel plated blocks + anti corrosion additive like feser corrosion blocker? (kinda expensive 50ml for 2 liter how often should i replenish that?)

5: all nickel plated blocks + anti corrosion additive + anti biocide additive?

6: Or use "Mayhems Pre-Mix X1 Clear" instead of distilled water + anti corrosion/anti biocide will Mayhems Pre-Mix X1 Clear have a negative impact on blocks?


Well from all that reading i didnt became any more wiser...

I do like the nickel plated blocks since it has "no corrosion issues" while the copper does....so it seems.

Anyway what do you guys recommend me when i use nickel plated blocks + Tygon R6012 norprene + plain distilled water......or Mayhems Pre-Mix X1 Clear?
I just want a clean loop and im not planning to tear my loop every 6 months since i know people who had their loops running for 1.5 to 2+ years without any issue even when they tear the loop apart and no gunk no junk no build up but pristine clean blocks i want that as well....

Ps il be using Bitspower Matt black compression fittings and planning on purchasing Koolance cpu-380i which is nickel plated hopefully a quality nickel plated fabrication....

Thanks in advance.
Edited by Cobra26 - 6/7/13 at 8:51pm

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #2 of 28
Thread Starter 
Since i read many good feedback from users using Mayhem products which do not stain or cause gunk build up atleast for their clear blue and Mayhems Pre-Mix X1 Clear.

So i was thinking if this would be a good combo:

- Tygon R6012 norprene (non plastisizer tubing)
- Mayhems Pre-Mix X1 Clear which is both an anti corrosion and anti biocide.

All will be used with preferable nickel plated blocks or is copper based good as well? since the Mayhems Pre-Mix X1 Clear is "good" for copper or do i still get oxidation?

If Mayhems Pre-Mix X1 Clear is good for either ek nickel or koolance nickel plated blocks it would RID me of much confusion and worries since they both forbid to use silver kill coils or pt nuke.
post #3 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobra26 View Post

Hi all,

After reading allot of forums regarding ISSUES with nickel plated blocks + silver kill coil or pt nuke since they stain or gunking your blocks im a bit confused because some say there is no problem while others had horror stories....
Now im contemplating using all copper based blocks with an anti corrosion additive and distilled water....

Ive also researched tubing and the plastisizer issue so went ahead and ordered Tygon R6012 Norprene tubing (which has no plastisizer issue as others have confirmed this even after long periods of time) together with plain distilled water the only problem now is what kind of additive i should use if il use a nickel plated cpu and gpu block? Remember i only want a clean loop no dye and the case is closed no sunlight. Should i go ahead and use a silver kill coil or should i use something like this: Mayhems Biocide Extreme or PT nuke but then again pt nuke doesnt go well with nickel...

So i post some options:

1: all nickel plated blocks + Silver kill coil?

2: all nickel plated blocks + PHN PT Nuke (PHN is more suited for nickel right?)?

3: all nickel plated blocks + Mayhems Biocide Extreme?

4: all nickel plated blocks + anti corrosion additive like feser corrosion blocker? (kinda expensive 50ml for 2 liter how often should i replenish that?)

5: all nickel plated blocks + anti corrosion additive + anti biocide additive?

6: Or use "Mayhems Pre-Mix X1 Clear" instead of distilled water + anti corrosion/anti biocide will Mayhems Pre-Mix X1 Clear have a negative impact on blocks?


Well from all that reading i didnt became any more wiser...

I do like the nickel plated blocks since it has "no corrosion issues" while the copper does....so it seems.

Anyway what do you guys recommend me when i use nickel plated blocks + Tygon R6012 norprene + plain distilled water......or Mayhems Pre-Mix X1 Clear?
I just want a clean loop and im not planning to tear my loop every 6 months since i know people who had their loops running for 1.5 to 2+ years without any issue even when they tear the loop apart and no gunk no junk no build up but pristine clean blocks i want that as well....

Ps il be using Bitspower Matt black compression fittings and planning on purchasing Koolance cpu-380i which is nickel plated hopefully a quality nickel plated fabrication....

Thanks in advance.


Silver will rob nickle of electrons, which will cause the nickle plating to corrode off, and effectively ruin your loop and waterblock tongue.gif


Copper and brass are the two most common metals in liquid cooling, then there are two others that are somewhat common, Nickle and Silver. Now nickle and silvers SEP are close enough to copper/brass that copper/brass and them will work together, but silver and nickle don't work together. Just get rid of your silver kill coil, and switch to Mayhems Biocide Extreme.

Most all Mayhem dyes work wonders. I use budget vinyl tubing, which cost me $40 for 100feet and have noticed no scaling. (Scaling = material buildup) I have Mayhems Biocide in my loop, and about 7x more Clear/UV blue dye than recommended, so if there would have been material buildup it would have happened XD
Edited by ZytheEKS - 6/7/13 at 11:13pm
The Laboratory
(11 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-8350 Vishera 8-Core 4.0GHz Asus Crosshair V Formula-Z Radeon R9 290X Generic 1333MHz R.A.M. 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Wester Digital 5400RPM HP CH20L "The Russian Winter" Windows 8 
KeyboardPowerCase
Steel Series Merc Fatal1ty 1000Watt PSU DIY Rig 
  hide details  
Reply
The Laboratory
(11 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX-8350 Vishera 8-Core 4.0GHz Asus Crosshair V Formula-Z Radeon R9 290X Generic 1333MHz R.A.M. 
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Wester Digital 5400RPM HP CH20L "The Russian Winter" Windows 8 
KeyboardPowerCase
Steel Series Merc Fatal1ty 1000Watt PSU DIY Rig 
  hide details  
Reply
post #4 of 28
+1, Stay away from Silver if running Nickel plated stuff. While there may not be definitive testing to show it accelerates corrosion, the galvanic potential does increase with silver in the loop.
corrosionplating.png

Brass to Ncikel is only a .10 where Brass to Silver is a .25.

Some of the EK test report showed that Silver ions do end up depositing in various areas.

Koolance also specifically says not to use Silver with their products most of which are nickel plated:
Quote:
Liquid Coolants

Koolance's product warranty does not cover the use of 3rd-party coolants, coolant additives, or corrosion. Koolance LIQ-702 or LIQ-705 coolants are strongly recommended to help avoid issues with mixed metals or biological growth. Additionally, do not use aluminum with bare (unplated) copper or bare (unplated) brass in the same system. Do not use silver with nickel in the same system.

Really, your best bet if you really want to retain warranty coverage is to use the coolant recommended by the block manufacturer which will include some sort of corrosion inhibitor. Using anything else could void your warranty.

With that said, I've had good luck with Distilled + PTnuke (copper sulfate) as a biocide on all my loops.

Also, corrosion happens, you can't stop it completely, only slow it down enough. Using a bare copper block is actually the lower maintenance. It does get finger prints and brownish oxidation on the exterior, but it's something you can easily clean up with some ketchup or vinegar. Nickel plating however isn't something you can clean up on your own once the corrosion starts.

I personally tend to favor bare copper blocks myself, Nickel is for bling and just causes more work at more cost.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3930K ASrock X79 Ext7 Evga GTX570 CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Phoenix SSD+2TB Seagate drives ASUS DVD-RW combo Windows 7 28" Hanns-G HZ281 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
MS Natural Corsair TX650 Danger Den Torture Rack Logitech MX518 
Mouse Pad
Desk 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3930K ASrock X79 Ext7 Evga GTX570 CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Phoenix SSD+2TB Seagate drives ASUS DVD-RW combo Windows 7 28" Hanns-G HZ281 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
MS Natural Corsair TX650 Danger Den Torture Rack Logitech MX518 
Mouse Pad
Desk 
  hide details  
Reply
post #5 of 28
one thing I will going to add on this post above is. Silver with plates tend to accelerate plasticize in tubing no matter what tubing you you refer,The only tubing I have not tested is Tygon plasticize free tubing. but the rest you name it. thumb.gif
Black Hawk
(25 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
4770k - 13 B 666 Asus Maximus VI Formula 1080 SeaHawk EK | K|NGP|N  G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
SAMSUNG 830 128GB raiD 0 rx 360 rx240 rx240 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Ek-Res X3 250mm Swiftech MCP35X2 COUGAR CF-V12HPB Vortex Lamptron FC9 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Bitspower compression fittings koolance CPU 370 Windows 10 Pro Acer XB271HU ‑ 27" 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Quick fire TK EVGA 1300g2 Corsair 800D MoDeD G502 
Mouse PadAudioOtherOther
Rosewill REACT XL Creative Sound Blaster Z Sennheiser HD 555  AKG K267 
Other
M-Audio BX5a 
  hide details  
Reply
Black Hawk
(25 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
4770k - 13 B 666 Asus Maximus VI Formula 1080 SeaHawk EK | K|NGP|N  G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
SAMSUNG 830 128GB raiD 0 rx 360 rx240 rx240 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
Ek-Res X3 250mm Swiftech MCP35X2 COUGAR CF-V12HPB Vortex Lamptron FC9 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Bitspower compression fittings koolance CPU 370 Windows 10 Pro Acer XB271HU ‑ 27" 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Quick fire TK EVGA 1300g2 Corsair 800D MoDeD G502 
Mouse PadAudioOtherOther
Rosewill REACT XL Creative Sound Blaster Z Sennheiser HD 555  AKG K267 
Other
M-Audio BX5a 
  hide details  
Reply
post #6 of 28
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all the feedback guys.

So ive narrowed it down to not using silver kill coils or pt-nuke with nickel plated blocks nor using tubing that has "plastisizer" issues that may leave residue in blocks.

Here is what i propose:

Using Tygon R6012 black norprene plastisizer free tubing:

http://www.aquatuning.us/product_info.php/info/p12063_Tygon-R6012-Norprene-tube-15-9-9-6mm--3-8-ID----black.html

And Mayhems Pre-Mix X1 Clear Coolant: it has anti corrosion and anti biocide and does not STAIN nor gunk up your blocks.

http://www.aquatuning.co.uk/product_info.php/info/p9905_Mayhems-Pre-Mix-X1-Clear-1000ml.html

Or EK-Ekoolant CLEAR premix 1000mL: this also has anti corrosion and anti biocide.

http://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-ekoolant-clear-premix-1000ml.html

@Martinm210

I was under the impression that distilled + silver kill coil is all you need guess im wrong since both EK and Koolance are against kill coils. The reason i went with nickel is due to the corrosion issues with copper blocks now ive seen so many horror stories in regards of nickel but this can be due to wrong usage of silver kill coils or pt nuke or another additive thats "bad" for nickel. So im going to follow the advise from the manufacturers.

I know copper tends to stain but this is more an "visual" annoyance but this would not have influence on the performance of the block right?
Can all the above options i mentioned also be used for copper blocks EVEN when im using it for atleast 1 year to 1.5 year without tearing it apart except for changing coolant after 9 to 1 year.
I know all blocks will stain. corrode in due time nothing can prevent that (well i did saw some one having 2 years without cleaning and had prestine copper blocks) but atleast slow the decay as best one can...

Both companies recommend their own brand of coolant which is there to sell for profits but is Mayhems Pre-Mix X1 Clear Coolant just as good?

The Koolance pre mix coolant is 700ml (need atleast 3 liter) and is expensive i either go with EK premix coolant or that from Mayhems pre mix coolant....

Your or any ones input regarding specificaly the options above would be very much appreciated thanks.
post #7 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobra26 View Post

Thanks for all the feedback guys.

So ive narrowed it down to not using silver kill coils or pt-nuke with nickel plated blocks nor using tubing that has "plastisizer" issues that may leave residue in blocks.

Here is what i propose:

Using Tygon R6012 black norprene plastisizer free tubing:

http://www.aquatuning.us/product_info.php/info/p12063_Tygon-R6012-Norprene-tube-15-9-9-6mm--3-8-ID----black.html

And Mayhems Pre-Mix X1 Clear Coolant: it has anti corrosion and anti biocide and does not STAIN nor gunk up your blocks.

http://www.aquatuning.co.uk/product_info.php/info/p9905_Mayhems-Pre-Mix-X1-Clear-1000ml.html

Or EK-Ekoolant CLEAR premix 1000mL: this also has anti corrosion and anti biocide.

http://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-ekoolant-clear-premix-1000ml.html

@Martinm210

I was under the impression that distilled + silver kill coil is all you need guess im wrong since both EK and Koolance are against kill coils. The reason i went with nickel is due to the corrosion issues with copper blocks now ive seen so many horror stories in regards of nickel but this can be due to wrong usage of silver kill coils or pt nuke or another additive thats "bad" for nickel. So im going to follow the advise from the manufacturers.

I know copper tends to stain but this is more an "visual" annoyance but this would not have influence on the performance of the block right?
Can all the above options i mentioned also be used for copper blocks EVEN when im using it for atleast 1 year to 1.5 year without tearing it apart except for changing coolant after 9 to 1 year.
I know all blocks will stain. corrode in due time nothing can prevent that (well i did saw some one having 2 years without cleaning and had prestine copper blocks) but atleast slow the decay as best one can...

Both companies recommend their own brand of coolant which is there to sell for profits but is Mayhems Pre-Mix X1 Clear Coolant just as good?

The Koolance pre mix coolant is 700ml (need atleast 3 liter) and is expensive i either go with EK premix coolant or that from Mayhems pre mix coolant....

Your or any ones input regarding specificaly the options above would be very much appreciated thanks.

Copper can tarnish, but it is only visual and easily fixable with a ketchup or vinegar bath. Nickel however isn't something you can fix if it starts to flake so that's why you should consider a corrosion blocker and if warranty is a high priority for you, you have to accept the requirements of using their coolant.

I have used EKoolant before for a short one month install. It seems like pretty good stuff. No personal experience with Mayhems but a lot of forum members have and seem to like it.

The question you need to ask yourself is, do you need warranty protection. If you do, then you probably have to use the manufacturers coolant. If not, then anything with a corrosion blocker will probably work well.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3930K ASrock X79 Ext7 Evga GTX570 CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Phoenix SSD+2TB Seagate drives ASUS DVD-RW combo Windows 7 28" Hanns-G HZ281 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
MS Natural Corsair TX650 Danger Den Torture Rack Logitech MX518 
Mouse Pad
Desk 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3930K ASrock X79 Ext7 Evga GTX570 CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Phoenix SSD+2TB Seagate drives ASUS DVD-RW combo Windows 7 28" Hanns-G HZ281 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
MS Natural Corsair TX650 Danger Den Torture Rack Logitech MX518 
Mouse Pad
Desk 
  hide details  
Reply
post #8 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinm210 View Post

Copper can tarnish, but it is only visual and easily fixable with a ketchup or vinegar bath. Nickel however isn't something you can fix if it starts to flake so that's why you should consider a corrosion blocker and if warranty is a high priority for you, you have to accept the requirements of using their coolant.

I have used EKoolant before for a short one month install. It seems like pretty good stuff. No personal experience with Mayhems but a lot of forum members have and seem to like it.

The question you need to ask yourself is, do you need warranty protection. If you do, then you probably have to use the manufacturers coolant. If not, then anything with a corrosion blocker will probably work well.

Thanks for the reply,

I checked the warranty from Koolance and they WONT honour warranty EVEN if you use their own coolant.....corrosion is not within their warranty policy...They do highly recommend using their special coolant since as they say it have been tested for over a long period of time unlike some other brands of coolant or plain distilled water since they use a different approach and testing methods. Here is the link for further information:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1223665/koolances-policy-on-nickel-silver-and-flaking-corrosion-whatever-you-call-the-nickel-coming-off

That EK coolant was it clear? And did you used any dye?

I need some further info/reviews on EK pre-mix coolant - Koolance pre-mix coolant - Mayhems pre-mix coolant.

I also send an email to Koolance if using Mayhems pre-mix coolant is ok and told them that EK doesnt have any issues with using their recommended coolant ie Ek coolant or primochill coolant or mayhem coolant (see link for verification) will post here what Koolance has to say.

From what i have read about mayhems pre-mix coolant and Koolance pre-mix coolant they both have good reviews from users (no corrosion, no gunking and no stain...and no "huge" drop in temps. Need to check their viscosity...


All that is left is whether to go with copper or nickel. But from the above options when using proper coolant and tubing it should work proper on nickel and copper.
Edited by Cobra26 - 6/8/13 at 4:15pm
post #9 of 28
The EKoolant I used was their blue variety. I didn't have any separationor settlement issues but thre was some light staining of the tubing. I only ran it for about thee weeks for a lan party build and then went back to distilled plus PTnuke.

Sounds like some won't cover corrosion loss no matter what, but an inhibitor can't hurt in adding some corrosion protection. I would probably just pock one of the clear options. I've had trouble using some dyes in the past, where is settled oit in my radiator and i ended up getting blue chunks flushing out for a long time after. Some dyes are better than others but IMHO it is safer to go clear fluid and use a good UV colored tubing. Haven't bought any myself recently though so not sure what is good and without plasticizer issues.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3930K ASrock X79 Ext7 Evga GTX570 CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Phoenix SSD+2TB Seagate drives ASUS DVD-RW combo Windows 7 28" Hanns-G HZ281 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
MS Natural Corsair TX650 Danger Den Torture Rack Logitech MX518 
Mouse Pad
Desk 
  hide details  
Reply
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
3930K ASrock X79 Ext7 Evga GTX570 CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
Phoenix SSD+2TB Seagate drives ASUS DVD-RW combo Windows 7 28" Hanns-G HZ281 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
MS Natural Corsair TX650 Danger Den Torture Rack Logitech MX518 
Mouse Pad
Desk 
  hide details  
Reply
post #10 of 28
I was enquiring about the warranty with EK. The sent me a link http://www.ekwb.com/shop/EK-IMAGES/EK_STAINING_TEST.pdf showing their testing on their blocks (regarding staining). They also confirmed to me that using distilled or any other coolant won't void your warranty.
Edited by andyv - 6/9/13 at 1:33am
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Water Cooling

Gear mentioned in this thread:

Overclock.net › Forums › Cooling › Water Cooling › Nickel + Silver coil or PT nuke? feser corrosion blocker + nickel? Confused...please help.