Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Mice › Mice, y u no ergonomic
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Mice, y u no ergonomic - Page 3

post #21 of 45
Personal experience with my relatively new mouse, I had to change my "natural" grip style with much effort, and a purchase of a wrist-rest mouse mat to accommodate this mouse, with about a week of practise and frustration. (Sort of held the mouse wrong before, long story) tongue.gif

Now the hovering claw grip has become my natural grip, and I don't regret one bit as my responsiveness and comfort has somewhat increased with the new "natural" grip. To each their own I guess. thumb.gif
Scarlett
(18 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX 6200 Gigabyte GA-78LMT-USB3 EVGA GTX 760 SC ACX Crucial Technology  
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Crucial Technology  Samsung 840 Evo WD Caviar Black WD Caviar Green 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Hitachi 1 TB Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo Xclio 256 Colour 120mm Fan x 2 Cougar Vortex 120mm 
OSKeyboardPowerCase
Windows 7 Ultimate Cooler Master Quickfire TK XFX 650w XXX Edition Aerocool X Warrior Red 
MouseMouse Pad
Razer Deathadder 2013 Razer Vespula 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 3770k Asus Maximus V Gene Asus GTX 780 Corsair Vengeance Pro 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
Samsung 840 Series Pro 256GB WD Caviar Black 1TB Corsair H100i Corsair SP120 PWM x2 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
Corsair AF140 Corsair AF140 Corsair AF120 Windows 8 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Asus VN247H-P WASD fully custom keyboard in UK layout Corsair AX860i Corsair 350D 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Razer Ouroboros OcUK Professional XXXL Mouse Mat Creative Labs GigaWorks T20 Series II 28W 2ch S... 
  hide details  
Reply
Scarlett
(18 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD FX 6200 Gigabyte GA-78LMT-USB3 EVGA GTX 760 SC ACX Crucial Technology  
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Crucial Technology  Samsung 840 Evo WD Caviar Black WD Caviar Green 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Hitachi 1 TB Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo Xclio 256 Colour 120mm Fan x 2 Cougar Vortex 120mm 
OSKeyboardPowerCase
Windows 7 Ultimate Cooler Master Quickfire TK XFX 650w XXX Edition Aerocool X Warrior Red 
MouseMouse Pad
Razer Deathadder 2013 Razer Vespula 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 3770k Asus Maximus V Gene Asus GTX 780 Corsair Vengeance Pro 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
Samsung 840 Series Pro 256GB WD Caviar Black 1TB Corsair H100i Corsair SP120 PWM x2 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
Corsair AF140 Corsair AF140 Corsair AF120 Windows 8 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
Asus VN247H-P WASD fully custom keyboard in UK layout Corsair AX860i Corsair 350D 
MouseMouse PadAudio
Razer Ouroboros OcUK Professional XXXL Mouse Mat Creative Labs GigaWorks T20 Series II 28W 2ch S... 
  hide details  
Reply
post #22 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinaesthetic View Post

There is an optimal shape: Mionix Naos/Logitech MX Performance/Revolution

Thing is though, is that not everyone has their hand at a resting position in the same form as the Naos. Some peoples' fingers might be ever so slightly closed at rest, and some spread at rest. I mean, you said it yourself, none of the ones you tried are perfect.
My only real gripe with Naos was that like almost everything else it wasn't putting my wrist on a natural angle. You know, it should be a bit lower on the right side and higher on the left. At least I can't keep the required angle for hours comfortably

MX looks interesting, obviously not the best gaming mouse though


Quote:
Originally Posted by neo0031 View Post

Personal experience with my relatively new mouse, I had to change my "natural" grip style with much effort, and a purchase of a wrist-rest mouse mat to accommodate this mouse, with about a week of practise and frustration. (Sort of held the mouse wrong before, long story) tongue.gif

Now the hovering claw grip has become my natural grip, and I don't regret one bit as my responsiveness and comfort has somewhat increased with the new "natural" grip. To each their own I guess. thumb.gif
Mmmh, yes, fingertip/claw is the easiest way to get more natural position when the mouse shape doesn't affect it as much.
Edited by test user - 6/10/13 at 9:45am
post #23 of 45
The G700 is closest to ergonomic mice AFAIK, it appears to be based on the MX Revolution and Performance series. A couple staff member where I work have the MX and the feel is incredible. The problem though is that they're big and bulky, and people with small hands probably won't feel as great. While with gaming mice, since it's already a niche market, a model has to fit as many people as possible.
Ama-no-Iwato
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 4770k MSI Z87 MPower Max EVGA GTX 770 2GB ACX Patriot Viper 3 Intel Extreme Master Ltd. Ed. D... 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB Corsair Neutron GTX 120GB SSD Samsung BD-ROM/DVD-RW Noctua NH-U12S 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 8 Pro Dell S2340M Logitech G710+ Seasonic X750 Gold 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
NZXT Phantom 820 Razer DeathAdder 2013 Edition Razer Manticor AKG K702 65th Anniversary Edition 
Audio
Fostex HP-A8 
  hide details  
Reply
Ama-no-Iwato
(17 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core i7 4770k MSI Z87 MPower Max EVGA GTX 770 2GB ACX Patriot Viper 3 Intel Extreme Master Ltd. Ed. D... 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB Corsair Neutron GTX 120GB SSD Samsung BD-ROM/DVD-RW Noctua NH-U12S 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 8 Pro Dell S2340M Logitech G710+ Seasonic X750 Gold 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
NZXT Phantom 820 Razer DeathAdder 2013 Edition Razer Manticor AKG K702 65th Anniversary Edition 
Audio
Fostex HP-A8 
  hide details  
Reply
post #24 of 45
Know what you mean. In desktop activities i leave my wrist in a natural position, so that i click the buttons with almost the sides if my fingers

Was going to say IMO 1.1, but Two Cables already elaborated. It simply doesn't force your hand into a position and has the sides angled outwards. This is where they make a lot of sense. You just can leave your wirst naturally angled easily. But while gaming? I don't think so. After all too low DPI anyway and you would still be hitting the buttons with other than the front of your fingers.

The Naos, Qpad 5k, Raptor M3 Platinum all force your wrist into zero angle or almost. They don't even allow a natural wrist position as much as (actually) any neutral shaped mouse.

Btw what's absolut needed: A real ergo mouse with a wrist rest like the Raptor M3/M4 and a (light linear) thumb button which deactivates the sensor to avoid picking it up. Great for non-competetive play.
Edited by Jalal - 6/10/13 at 12:12pm
post #25 of 45
The Evoluent series address some of your issues, but I have no idea what kind of sensors they use, and I doubt they'd be much good for gaming. A mouse that "fills" your entire palm and supports your knuckle joint would seriously hamper freedom of finger movement and therefore would be awful for gaming, or other button-intensive tasks.
Crysis Slayer
(16 items)
 
Gaming Mice
(9 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5-4670K ASUS MAXIMUS VI GENE EVGA GeForce GTX 770 SC w/ ACX Cooling G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 PRO 256GB SSD HSGT 7K1000 3x Corsair Air Series SP120 PWM Quiet Edition Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
ASUS VG248QE Max Keyboard Blackbird Tenkeyless G1B-UK SeaSonic X Series X650 Gold Corsair Obsidian 350D 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Cooler Master MasterMouse MM520 Turtle Beach Drift XL Beyerdynamic MMX 300 Focal XS Book Wireless 2.0 
  hide details  
Reply
Crysis Slayer
(16 items)
 
Gaming Mice
(9 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i5-4670K ASUS MAXIMUS VI GENE EVGA GeForce GTX 770 SC w/ ACX Cooling G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 PRO 256GB SSD HSGT 7K1000 3x Corsair Air Series SP120 PWM Quiet Edition Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate x64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
ASUS VG248QE Max Keyboard Blackbird Tenkeyless G1B-UK SeaSonic X Series X650 Gold Corsair Obsidian 350D 
MouseMouse PadAudioAudio
Cooler Master MasterMouse MM520 Turtle Beach Drift XL Beyerdynamic MMX 300 Focal XS Book Wireless 2.0 
  hide details  
Reply
post #26 of 45
OP take a look at the Cyborg RAT 7. Its modular so you can make it fit the natural position of your hand.
Black Jarvis V1.9
(21 items)
 
Mazdaspeed6
(18 items)
 
 
  hide details  
Reply
Black Jarvis V1.9
(21 items)
 
Mazdaspeed6
(18 items)
 
 
  hide details  
Reply
post #27 of 45
poling rate is not too slow for "twitch games". 8-16ms is nothing. your body will naturally get used to all delays of your hardware and adapt. I played years with an mx510 on standard polling rate and average pings around 80 and I made the sickest flickshots in 1.6.

edit: oh wow this thread went big fast. was directed at the guy saying some mouse has a too low polling rate for "twitch" fps games...
post #28 of 45
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jalal View Post

Know what you mean. In desktop mice i leave my wrist in a natural position, so that i click the buttons with almost the sides if my fingers

Was going to say IMO 1.1, but Two Cables already elaborated. It simply doesn't force your hand into a position and has the sides angled outwards. This is where they make a lot of sense. You just can leave your wirst naturally angled easily. But while gaming? I don't think so. After all too low DPI anyway and you would still be hitting the buttons with other than the front of your fingers.

The Naos, Qpad 5k, Raptor M3 Platinum all force your wrist into zero angle or almost. They don't even allow a natural wrist position as much as (actually) any neutral shaped mouse.

Btw what's absolut needed: A real ergo mouse with a wrist rest like the Raptor M3/M4 and a (light linear) thumb button which deactivates the sensor to avoid picking it up. Great for non-competetive play.
Yes, you get it! *fistbump* I'm using all my mice so that my hand is on the far right side of the mouse, that makes the problem smaller. Even so, the mice just aren't designed for that. Naos and the likes don't even allow that kind of grip like the more "neutral" shapes (such as the IME 3.0 shape, my fav so far and works ok for the grip) do, because of their extreme design. I don't honestly think ambidextrous mice can get quite as close to the natural angle while supporting your hand since they don't have the "high left side, low right side" perk.

HERE is the Handshoe, which IMO looks like a great concept. Sounds much like what you were asking. Again, no good for gaming, but it gets a few things right that no good gaming mice do. Though I wouldn't want a wrist rest for a gaming mouse, it has a negative effect on the feel IMO.



@Artifact; Yes,the Evoluent looks great as well. For a gaming mouse I'd prefer a smaller wrist angle still, even though that one is more natural. But the common standard of zero angle sure as hell hasn't even seen natural tongue.gif
post #29 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayfkay View Post

poling rate is not too slow for "twitch games". 8-16ms is nothing. your body will naturally get used to all delays of your hardware and adapt. I played years with an mx510 on standard polling rate and average pings around 80 and I made the sickest flickshots in 1.6.

edit: oh wow this thread went big fast. was directed at the guy saying some mouse has a too low polling rate for "twitch" fps games...

Mouse reaction time is difficult to perceive, but you can easily get a feel for how long a time 16 ms are in a game like Quake Live by putting a cap on the number of frames. Use "/com_maxfps 125" for one frame per eight milliseconds and "/com_maxfps 62.5" for one frame every sixteen milliseconds.

Of course you can adapt, but you'd be able to play better if you didn't have to.
post #30 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by test user View Post

Yes, you get it! *fistbump* I'm using all my mice so that my hand is on the far right side of the mouse, that makes the problem smaller. Even so, the mice just aren't designed for that. Naos and the likes don't even allow that kind of grip like the more "neutral" shapes (such as the IME 3.0 shape, my fav so far and works ok for the grip) do, because of their extreme design. I don't honestly think ambidextrous mice can get quite as close to the natural angle while supporting your hand since they don't have the "high left side, low right side" perk.

HERE is the Handshoe, which IMO looks like a great concept. Sounds much like what you were asking. Again, no good for gaming, but it gets a few things right that no good gaming mice do. Though I wouldn't want a wrist rest for a gaming mouse, it has a negative effect on the feel IMO.



@Artifact; Yes,the Evoluent looks great as well. For a gaming mouse I'd prefer a smaller wrist angle still, even though that one is more natural. But the common standard of zero angle sure as hell hasn't even seen natural tongue.gif

Handshoemouse 170$ where i live meh, was really interested. But that's not worth it.

Actually one of the main reasons i said for non-competetive games is the wrist rest. I tested it multiple times with the Raptor M3 Platinum, the loss of control is clearly there. I thought that maybe it is because of the mold not being suited for the palm rest, but i am certain it's not that. The grip is just better without one. And you're right about high left, low right.


About the Evoluent, saw it in real life just recently, somehow wasn't impressed, it's too much. And again, picking up is a problem. It should be suited for games.


And still think a sensor off switch would be great. I mean apart from optimizing the 3090 sensor by making it more responsive, less smoothing, what's there else to do?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Mice
Overclock.net › Forums › Components › Mice › Mice, y u no ergonomic