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[cultofmac]Meet the new Mac Pro - Page 18

post #171 of 426
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyronn94 View Post

So if it's a 12 core with hyper threading, I find it interesting that they've gone for the same number of threads as the old Mac Pro, which could have two 6 core HT CPU's, giving 24 threads, a lot of people could see this as not much of an improvement - 12 core HT vs 2 x 6 core HT.

The last 12 core Mac Pros were Nehalem based, moving to Ivy-E (or perhaps Haswell-E, according to some sources) should be an appreciable improvement. Two full generations of IPC and performance per watt improvements, possibly higher clock speeds, as well as a single CPU vs dual socket setup (meaning no QPI overhead or NUMA considerations slowing things down), makes for a significant improvement.

And of course, it's not all about raw CPU power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

The CPU has 12 Physical Cores?

Yes.

Ivy-E should have a native 12 core die.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostmage View Post

Yeah... I'm finding it hard to believe a heatsink with such low fin density and so small could possibly cool a Xeon and 2 of those cards. That can't be that much surface area, and even if they beef the fins up more, it would need a fan with some serious static pressure to get air through.

Everything is bare die's pressed directly up against that heatsink, with a blower pushing air right through the middle.

The GPUs will likely have slightly reduced clock speeds, and Ivy-E isn't going to consume any more power or dissipate more heat than current LGA-2011 hex cores. It's also not likely to be the highest clocked part available.

I suspect the system will run warm when loaded, but I do not expect there to be any real problems with the cooling solution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatt View Post

Dual GPUs? Any word on whether it is for sure utilizing desktop parts? My guess is they went for high-end dual mobile firepros.

Unlikely to be mobile Firepros given the other hardware involved and the listed amount of memory.

I'm betting full Tahiti (or possibly trimmed Curacao) dies, on a custom PCB.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shpongle View Post

Are they using a ribbon cable of some sorts?

Almost certainly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shpongle View Post

Also, how is the RAM mounted like that? Is this a custom motherboard?

How could it be otherwise?

Even the old Mac Pros used custom boards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shpongle View Post

But the more and more I look at it the more it looks impossible...

I was thinking the exact opposite.

I saw the specs and dimensions listed before looking at the pictures, and was skeptical. One look at Apple's animations/images quickly turned that skepticism into respect for a well engineered design.

Still wouldn't buy one, and still don't like Apple, but this thing is brilliant.
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post #172 of 426
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeyboardXpert View Post

I hesitate to attack specifically you, because there were many others dismissing it for other reasons. The fact remains that the SG09 is nearly twice if not more than twice as large,

2" wider, 4" longer, 4" taller. It's not a big difference. Professionals currently have room for behemoth workstations whose volume is probably around 5000 cubic inches.
Quote:
and the point about the aluminum is that the SG09 is 100% Chinese. There is no issue with Chinese manufacturing, though some people see it as a con.

I, personally, don't care.
Quote:
Also, I highly doubt the price will be $5000-$10000, as the old one wasn't and virtually no one pays that much for a computer.

The old one did cost that much with top-of-the-line CPU and GPU options. The 12-core Xeon will probably go for around $2000 and those W9000s are on the market for around $3500 each today.
Quote:
You care about WC in the Mac Pro because you said you had to do it in an SG09 to make everything work out.

But so what? WC is objectively better anyway.
Quote:
Also, the entire body is a heatsink as well as the thermal core, as with all their aluminum devices. It has a 6" turbine cooling it, it will be fine.

Their aluminum devices that get scalding hot on the exterior? I own a MacBook Pro; Apple's thermal issues are not foreign to me.
Quote:
People buying the workstation probably don't care about size that much, but why take up space when you don't have to?

It's not a big enough difference to matter that much this kind of market, though I will grant you that it is a noticeable difference and there could be a niche that needs a workstation smaller than the SG09.
Quote:
Your comment about Thunderbolt devices seems extremely short sighted. There are a wealth of Thunderbolt devices available right now, from hard drives to monitors to RAID arrays to SSDs to audio to networking solutions.

It wasn't meant to be taken literally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinaesthetic View Post

The key to Thunderbolt isn't that there aren't a lot of devices out there with it. Its that with the existing devices, which for professional applications, are fairly numerous. Those devices can be daisy chained on the same port up to the bandwidth/power limit of the port, which increases its expandability to far greater lengths than any existing device/PC/motherboard can currently support in an, what is essentially, ITX SFF.

And that tiny cooler isn't just the only thing cooling. The entire case, being aluminum, is meant for thermal transfer from the ambient airflow in the case itself. Essentially, the entire case is one gigantic heat-sink. So I'd imagine its actual heat dissipating being quite good for its SFF.

People often forget, being OCN where everything is overclocked in general, that at stock speeds, the GPU and CPU aren't super-heat producing products and generally run fairly cool.


And he isn't desperate to defend Apple. Its a good product, and nothing you've come up with so far compares to what is being offered. So in essence you are just being another Apple vs PC troll.

Hell, you can hate Apple for all I care, but this Mac Pro is legitimately a good innovation that might get PC case manufacturers on their behinds to star innovating, rather than just saying an innovation is: "support for a 360/480 radiator".

I was joking and really don't care to read your first paragraph, sorry.

I don't see the exterior of the case getting hot as being a good thing.

It doesn't compare to what's being offered because it's 4" taller and roughly 2" wider. Okay. I'm sure those couple inches matter so much to professionals whose workstations are probably currently around 25" tall, 20" long, and 10" wide.

You know what, I agree with you that most PC case manufacturers aren't doing a good enough job with SFF. The SG09 is smaller than most ITX cases of its caliber, such as the Prodigy, despite being able to fit a microATX board. And the difference between ITX (one graphics card, LGA 1155) and microATX (2 graphics cards, or hell even 4 if you care to WC and don't care about three of them running at x8, and LGA 2011) is huge.
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post #173 of 426
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usario View Post

2" wider, 4" longer, 4" taller. It's not a big difference. Professionals currently have room for behemoth workstations whose volume is probably around 5000 cubic inches.
I, personally, don't care.
The old one did cost that much with top-of-the-line CPU and GPU options. The 12-core Xeon will probably go for around $2000 and those W9000s are on the market for around $3500 each today.
But so what? WC is objectively better anyway.
Their aluminum devices that get scalding hot on the exterior? I own a MacBook Pro; Apple's thermal issues are not foreign to me.
It's not a big enough difference to matter that much this kind of market, though I will grant you that it is a noticeable difference and there could be a niche that needs a workstation smaller than the SG09.
It wasn't meant to be taken literally.
I was joking and really don't care to read your first paragraph, sorry.

I don't see the exterior of the case getting hot as being a good thing.

It doesn't compare to what's being offered because it's 4" taller and roughly 2" wider. Okay. I'm sure those couple inches matter so much to professionals whose workstations are probably currently around 25" tall, 20" long, and 10" wide.

You know what, I agree with you that most PC case manufacturers aren't doing a good enough job with SFF. The SG09 is smaller than most ITX cases of its caliber, such as the Prodigy, despite being able to fit a microATX board. And the difference between ITX (one graphics card, LGA 1155) and microATX (2 graphics cards, or hell even 4 if you care to WC and don't care about three of them running at x8, and LGA 2011) is huge.

Yeah they should've released another black box. That would've really sparked a lot of interest.
post #174 of 426
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdoublejj View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeyboardXpert View Post

I wish everyone would stop bashing this thing.

When you see a PC innovate this much and get that much power into a form factor the size of a small wastepaper basket, I will buy it.

You have no reason to believe it is difficult to maintain or upgrade, or even that it is a single processor configuration. Given how much we now know they can fit into that form factor, how can you say it's not possible it's dual-proc compatible?

Haters be hatin, but seriously, I think it's ridiculous to decide that it's a horrible design based on pictures of it that look beautiful and simple to upgrade. The FirePro card looks like you can just pop it out and swap in a new one. Besides which, the computing power in that form factor is still insane considering what we're getting with things of similar sizes like mini-ITX configs which don't yet offer LGA2011 or something like the Alienware X51, also without LGA2011. The point of this is that the compute power is about all that you can cram into a form factor like that, and then you can daisy chain 36 Thunderbolt 2 devices with a theoretical data speed of 20GB/s. If you can find a device on the market today that can hit that bandwidth ceiling, I want it. Because quite frankly, if a top-of-the-line LGA2011 workstation-class processor and dual FirePros with a PCIe SSD isn't enough for you, the crazy Thunderbolt 2 expandability is meant to be enough to satisfy virtually any requirement you need.

Also, this is probably going to be lots less than people expect because it's Apple. When an employee showed the original iPhone to a then-RIM exec, he told him that you couldn't fit that power and functionality into a device of that size for less than $5000.

I love how when a computer with an entirely unique design seems to fit impossible amounts of compute power inside and didn't seem even possible to manufacture before it was revealed, the OCN community will scream "MORE MORE MORE" because it's not perfect for an enthusiast in every regard, just because it's Apple.

WE DO! look at the mITX builds they can get REALLY small. I have already devised a plan to fit a gaming computer in to an NES. Also it's using laptops parts. so yeah this has already been done with PC and mac. the centralized cooling sure is different though, eerrr well at least the shape of it is.

I want you to show me a build with that much power in the same size of a case. Go for it., grab an mitx case and put all that into it. Can you do a single 4770k and a single 7970GHZ or Titan or GTX 780 sure, but I guarantee you there is nothing on the market that packs that much computing power in that small of a form factor. Not at this time, and I don't see anyone doing it in the future other than Apple.
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post #175 of 426
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foolsmasher View Post

Yeah they should've released another black box. That would've really sparked a lot of interest.

Irrelevant to the point.
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post #176 of 426
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Originally Posted by Gnomepatrol View Post

I want you to show me a build with that much power in the same size of a case. Go for it., grab an mitx case and put all that into it. Can you do a single 4770k and a single 7970GHZ or Titan or GTX 780 sure, but I guarantee you there is nothing on the market that packs that much computing power in that small of a form factor. Not at this time, and I don't see anyone doing it in the future other than Apple.


Not to mention the parts he mentioned putting in a old console by his own description are laptop parts. Thats what caught my eye at any rate. I honestly don't see any Wintel box managing a top of the line Xeon and a pair of W9000's in a package that small anytime soon, thats an immense amount of hardware and power in a tiny little package.
post #177 of 426
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Originally Posted by Shpongle View Post

Ok, someone help me out here. I'm trying to figure out how this thing fits together but I'm lost when it comes to the GPUs.

Are they using a ribbon cable of some sorts?

Also, how is the RAM mounted like that? Is this a custom motherboard?

I'd really like for this to be a finished product design because it'd be an engineering marvel to fit that much power in such a small space. But the more and more I look at it the more it looks impossible...maybe that's what Apple wants me to believe!

They are either plugged in via ribbon cables (like those PCI-E relocators) or there's a daughterboard in the base of the computer where they all plug in.

Custom designed motherboards have been in mac desktops for a long time. This is no exception.

RAM is probably on moving mini daughterboards.

they have units on the showroom floor, it's possible.
 
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post #178 of 426
Probably already been posted, but you can see pictures on Apple's website. This is the single most innovative iteration in desktop PC design I've ever seen. Makes the Murderbox MKII look like a Ford Edsel.
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post #179 of 426
I wish I could get a SSF PC that small but the new mac pro is less wide then m-itx motherboards and it shorter then most graphics cards.
post #180 of 426
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Originally Posted by Gnomepatrol View Post

I want you to show me a build with that much power in the same size of a case. Go for it., grab an mitx case and put all that into it. Can you do a single 4770k and a single 7970GHZ or Titan or GTX 780 sure, but I guarantee you there is nothing on the market that packs that much computing power in that small of a form factor. Not at this time, and I don't see anyone doing it in the future other than Apple.
Exactly. It's really pretty damn impressive.

I'm wondering where the power supply goes in that thing. With dual Firepros and a 12 core Xeon we'd have to be talking 850W+, no?
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