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[cultofmac]Meet the new Mac Pro - Page 19

post #181 of 426
Is all a matter of perception.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

You're looking at an extremely stupid design for pro users.

Restrictive = Portable
hard to maintain = Buy Applecare, let Apple take care of it. (I still see lots of old Mac Pros around my college campus and they are running perfectly fine)
hard to upgrade = Thunderbolt
not enough expansion slots = Thunderbolt
limited thermal dissipation = From Apple.com "We designed a single, larger fan that pulls air upward through a bottom vent." This almost reminds me of Silverstone cases which have amazing heat dissipation.
all parts have to be custom made for the design except maybe the CPU etc.

And on top of this, the thing can't be used for proper high end designs such as 2p setups. = We don't know if this is the case yet.
post #182 of 426
Really wished they used M.2 SSDs.
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post #183 of 426

To those talking about the size -- Do you remember the G4 cube?

Anyway, there's a lot of stuff not in that case. Things like DVD drives (still very necessary on workstations) and a power supply big enough to power it. Another question is storage. Power users don't want to wait all day to copy the files they need to and from the NAS. I think Apple added so many thunderbolt ports because they know you'll need them and you'll have a dozen external components stacked next to the tower.

 

Another problem is the cooling. Even if we pretend that a 5" triangle offers enough dissipation for 500-800w, there are still problems. The first is ventilation. Most desks push things up against the base of the computer. This isn't an issue as the main air intakes aren't at the bottom, but will be an issue here. Second, in order to make up for the lack of surface area, a much larger volume of air must be sent through. Fast fans are loud. There's not much of a way to get around this. Finally, what about fan failure? If a case fan (or even all the fans in a case) fails, the parts probably won't overheat that badly as there's still room for the heat to rise and leave the case (if it's a decent design and the case isn't filled with dust). In the new mac pro, fan failure means shutdown at best (which always happens just before that all-night render rush-job completes) and permanent damage at worst.

post #184 of 426
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alatar View Post

You're looking at an extremely stupid design for pro users.

Restrictive
hard to maintain
hard to upgrade
not enough expansion slots
limited thermal dissipation
all parts have to be custom made for the design except maybe the CPU
etc.

And on top of this, the thing can't be used for proper high end designs such as 2p setups.

Neither the DIMMs nor the CPU is custom.

Limited thermal dissipation is negated by the limited upgradability. The design should be sufficient for it's stock components, and since you can't really replace or add anything, it's going to be difficult to run non-stock hardware inside it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panther Al View Post

I honestly don't see any Wintel box managing a top of the line Xeon and a pair of W9000's in a package that small anytime soon

I do.

The 2013 Mac Pro, with Windows installed on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosarian View Post

Is all a matter of perception.

Thunderbolt will severely limit upgrade options, especially early on. That's not just a matter of perception.

Yes, you will probably be able to get a thunderbolt to PCI-E expander with it's own case, PSU, and backplane, but those won't be cheap, and you'll end up with a tower sized box anyway.
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post #185 of 426
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post

I do.

The 2013 Mac Pro, with Windows installed on it.


*LOL*

OK, fair point that.
post #186 of 426
Quote:
Originally Posted by hajile View Post

Things like DVD drives (still very necessary on workstations)

I share one external DVD drive between every system I own. Works fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hajile View Post

Another question is storage.

Storage is an issue, I agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hajile View Post

Another problem is the cooling. Even if we pretend that a 5" triangle offers enough dissipation for 500-800w, there are still problems. The first is ventilation. Most desks push things up against the base of the computer. This isn't an issue as the main air intakes aren't at the bottom, but will be an issue here. Second, in order to make up for the lack of surface area, a much larger volume of air must be sent through. Fast fans are loud. There's not much of a way to get around this. Finally, what about fan failure? If a case fan (or even all the fans in a case) fails, the parts probably won't overheat that badly as there's still room for the heat to rise and leave the case (if it's a decent design and the case isn't filled with dust). In the new mac pro, fan failure means shutdown at best (which always happens just before that all-night render rush-job completes) and permanent damage at worst.

I don't see cooling as such a problem.

800w is too high a figure. I doubt this thing will need to dissipate more than 500-600w, maximum (if you decided to run furmark and linpack at the same time).

Also, the triangle doesn't need to dissipate all the heat. The PCBs components are mounted to dissipate a significant amount, especially in a design like this that has air flowing around all of them. The heatsink in the center is connected to the CPU and GPU dies and should have enough surface area to handle the ~300-400w (100 CPU die, 100-150 for each GPU die) or so these components will pump out.

The fan looks fairly substantial, and shouldn't be too loud even while moving significant air.

The major downside I see, and the main point I'm in agreement with you on, is the single point of failure. One fan goes and the system has to shut down. All of my dekstops have more than one case fan, and many have more than one fan on their heat sinks. I could lose any three fans (beside my GPU blowers) on my primary system and would probably be fine for light to medium loads, or full load if even one CPU fan was still going.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post

Really wished they used M.2 SSDs.

Harder to justify a 300% profit margin on an easily identifiable 3rd party part like that...
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post #187 of 426
I'm really curious about the cooling performance of this design. From the looks of that heatsink it's going to get pretty toasty.
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post #188 of 426
Storage I don't see much of an issue.
Considering people who work in Audio/Video send files to NAS/file servers/external drives first for archiving/universal backup so copies are available there always. Then pull over what you need to the local SSD for editing.
Or in the case of the 6 thunderbolt, just work off the externals without lag using the SSD as a scratch disk.
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post #189 of 426
Surely I'm not the only person here who actually doesn't like the design, i've got a feeling that this will get damn hot if they use haswel/ivy chips and two firepros all sharing the one heatsync, plus the ventilation doesn't seem to be extreme, unless the thing's co-designed by dyson and they've got a jet turbine moving air through. Plus how many internal drives does it even fit? It looks like only one but i could be wrong. I'm just not a fan of a messy desktop with drives being everywhere, and a bin which spews out hot air of course. i prefer the cheese grater to the iBin
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post #190 of 426
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbowhash View Post

Surely I'm not the only person here who actually doesn't like the design, i've got a feeling that this will get damn hot if they use haswel/ivy chips and two firepros all sharing the one heatsync, plus the ventilation doesn't seem to be extreme, unless the thing's co-designed by dyson and they've got a jet turbine moving air through. Plus how many internal drives does it even fit? It looks like only one but i could be wrong. I'm just not a fan of a messy desktop with drives being everywhere, and a bin which spews out hot air of course. i prefer the cheese grater to the iBin

You're wrong. It fits 0 drives. You're expected to use it with a NAS or TB RAID. And I seriously doubt that it has cooling problems. Apple has its share of design mess ups, but putting out something like this with inadequate cooling is just too obvious a mistake to make. Anyway, 0/10, troll harder, etc.

Ah, I just realized why they're making it in the US. It's because they need workers who can apply TIM properly biggrin.gif
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