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[npr] Zettabyte: the size of NSA's farms - Page 5  

post #41 of 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by aroc91 View Post

You're an enabler. I have seen nothing that suggests all this snooping has done any good.

exactly. There's a difference between hoarding EVERYBODY's data and only those who are suspected. Surely didn't stop the Boston bombing. instead, let's fill our servers with 7 year old children calling their granny on mother's day...
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post #42 of 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phishy714 View Post

Any sort of credibility you mustered up with that little speech just went out the window.

Anyone who doesn't trust the Government is not American, guys! I wonder what the authors of the Declaration of Independence would think about that..

I was specifically referring to that poster I quoted. Of course Americans can disagree with the government. If you think my argument stands for the opposite proposition, then you have serious comprehension deficiencies.

I made some assumptions about the quoted poster based on his reckless accusations about "every single US president" committing war crimes in one breath, and then his own admission of ignorance of US history in the next. That, along with his eagerness to condemn the US for not voluntarily entering into agreements with the EU, makes me assume he learned all he knows about the US from hearsay. And he "may come back with specific incidents later if the thread stays open." Conclude then verify is a deplorable method of operation when doing something as radical as accusing every single US president of war crimes.

And just in case this is all too complicated for you: yes, he obviously can be American while also being that careless. I would just hope he's not.
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post #43 of 246
Why is this even discussed? The 5 ZB description comes from William Binney. Binney retired in 2001 and had his security clearance revoked in 2007. I'm sure glad we are discussing an article based of the assumptions of somebody who hasn't worked there for 12 years and has been completely separated from their data for 6.

Also, please realize that these computers are probably going to be having multiple copies of everything. If you need to have 5 different computers working on 1 GB of data each simultaneously that's probably 5 GB of data just for the storage of the original data. Then each has it's OS, the programs being run, copies of the results, possibly going over results received from communications with the other computers working, etc. So redundancy upon redundancy.

Finally, where are people getting this numbers on annual data usage? UC San Diego made what they thought was a low estimate based on data of 9.57 ZB a year... in 2011. I've even seen displays of mobile only data consumption reaching over 1.2 EB per month in 2012. 5 ZB is only crazy by the fact of how large of a facility would be needed. It's either a big overestimate, what they plan on having years down the road since data increases almost exponentially each year, or the most impressive data center ever by far.

Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel View Post

And why wouldn't they want/need to have 5ZB? I'm assuming they are not spending $1.2B just to get data for a couple of years...but rather for decades to come. That can easily add up especially given how many people in poorer countries aren't as 'connected' as us. And then keep in mind that they have to do backups of their own data as well.

I just want to do this for giggles...

If they spent $1,200,000,000 on 5 ZB that is $240,000,000 per ZB
Or $234,275 per EB
Or $228.88 per PB
Or $0.22 per TB

You know, I don't even care what they are doing anymore. I just want to know where they are getting this deal at!
Edited by Kirmie - 6/11/13 at 8:15am
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post #44 of 246
It is scary the amount of data being collected and saved. I'm betting it would be extremely easy to look at a constructed personality profile of someone and then subtly manipulate them. I'm not even talking about blackmailing someone based on their google searchs, I'm talking about manipulating them without their knowledge.
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post #45 of 246
Haven't you heard? Microcenter is running a pretty sweet deal on government grade storage right now. You can also pick up a cheap 4670K combo with to take home and cook up half-brained conspiracy theories about how 1984 is real life, or about how every US president is guilty of war crimes. If only the combo included an education above the level of ITT Tech...
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post #46 of 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by BinaryDemon View Post

It is scary the amount of data being collected and saved. I'm betting it would be extremely easy to look at a constructed personality profile of someone and then subtly manipulate them. I'm not even talking about blackmailing someone based on their google searchs, I'm talking about manipulating them without their knowledge.

Please explain how you think this could be accomplished, or why the NSA has any interest in doing so.
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post #47 of 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by littledonny View Post

Please explain how you think this could be accomplished, or why the NSA has any interest in doing so.

No, and I don't. But it's naive to think that this data will remain solely in the hands of the NSA. I'm sure it's shared with other government agencies as needed and eventually hackers will find weak spots in the network and get access to portions of it.
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post #48 of 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by BinaryDemon View Post

No, and I don't. But it's naive to think that this data will remain solely in the hands of the NSA. I'm sure it's shared with other government agencies as needed and eventually hackers will find weak spots in the network and get access to portions of it.

Which is why NSA doesn't share much data with other governmental agencies. There are many levels of computer network security most of us government types only interact with 2 or 3 levels depending on clearance, with the vast majority at the bottom 1 or 2 levels.
 
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post #49 of 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by doomlord52 View Post

Ok, let's pretend for a second that I DIDN'T hit the 'X' button instead of the minimize button.

Firstly, just because bandwidth will reach 1.4 zettabytes PER YEAR (four years from now), doesn't mean the actual available data will; a massive portion of the data in traffic is duplicate data. You still have to deal with a billion (1.6 billion... wow...) copies of Gangnam style, etc. And even then, they want to hold 3 and a half years of it... that includes the youtube videos. And it'll all be held at that one building.

The data rate alone doesn't make sense. 1.4 zettabytes/year = 355.12tbp/s. The connection rate between the EU and NA - TWO CONTINENTS; home to OVER 1.268 BILLION people - is 4.4tbp/s. So this ONE building outstrips the entire internet connection between two continents by over 100x. Yes, it's obviously not meant to capture that much data, but still.

The buildings also makes no sense, regardless of if we count secret storage places or not.

Let's pretend they're using DNA to store the data; something that is insanely unlikely, has only been tried in small numbers, and would just in general be a nightmare to work with. Even if they used the highest density tech possible; DNA storage, the best density is still only 700TB per gram. That ends up giving you 7.14 TONNES of DNA for storage.

Using insane 50tb drives that are 9x100x70mm (slightly smaller than laptop drives) in size and weight 0.5kg (33% lighter), you still end up with 100 million drives. Combined, they'd weight 50,000 tonnes (half an aircraft carrier), and they'd take up the same space as TWELVE (and a half) great pyramids (31,500,000 cubic meters).

Wiki gives us an estimate that the floor space is about 1.5million square feet (209,025 square meters). Using our super-space drives of insanity and assuming its SOLID hard-drives (no room anywhere for anything), the building MUST be 150 meters tall. The average 'story' is 10ft, so that means that building is about 49 stories tall. It's not. And that means that if an HDD failed anywhere, you'd need to tunnel to it, through literally meters and meters of harddrives. So yea. It would probably need to be 80-90 stories tall (250m).

What about fail rate. Well. 50 million drives, with an MTBF of 1.4 million hours, results in crazy numbers. Collectively, 1 hour for them would be a total of 50 million 'work' hours. So that means in one hour, an average of THIRTY FIVE drives would fail (if it were a constant rate) - that's one every 102 seconds!

So we've got an improbably big building filled with impossible harddrives that still fail at a rate that's not manageable.


This building is literally, in every sense of the word, impossible.

I don't know what you said but you said it logically so I believe it tongue.gif
But really unless they tunneled 2 miles into the earth I agree that it just isn't physically feasible yet from 1 building.

Maybe that 5 zetas of storage is actually the entire storage capacity of the US (Fed + State + Military)? and the NSA is just in all of it.
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post #50 of 246
So... Are we talking HDDs or SSDs didn't see it in the article, also with or without fault tolerance/RAID? tongue.gif.(pretty scary stuff)
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