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post #81 of 246
i don't really see much difference between what they did here and what google does everyday to serve you ads. they aren't looking at everyone's information, but it is there for them to search through more or less. kind of like when you do a google search, you don't get the whole internet, you get only responses to what you are specifically looking for.

i get that people constitutionally have a right to privacy and they want to defend that. but with the massive threat of domestic attacks people have engaged in recently, i don't mind having this. and i haven't seen any evidence it has been used to abuse people
post #82 of 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by b3machi7ke View Post


Highlighted the important part everyone seems to miss out of this. Essential liberty, not some privacy. Doesn't mean I agree with what the NSA might or might not be doing, but I'm tired of dumb people not using this quotation correctly.

The ability to store and have access to this much information goes far beyond giving up a little privacy. The right for law abiding citizens to live their lives without the government having the ability to monitor and store every modicum of their day is, IMO, an essential liberty.
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post #83 of 246
Not to late for the paranoid to remember that you can still keep data off line if need be.

Now doesn't that make you feel better?
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post #84 of 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by b3machi7ke View Post

Right, NOTHING to do with a flood in Thailand that everyone around the globe predicted and agreed was the source. So not only does the US Government control the media outlets in the States, now they control the media across the globe? doh.gif
proof.gif In the last thread, you seemed to throw around a lot of knowledge about the inner workings of agencies like the NSA, I'd like to know where you get your information from. Did some looking around, I can't see any evidence that's how much they had, nor do I see any proof on the internet that much storage is remotely possible with today's tech...
Highlighted the important part everyone seems to miss out of this. Essential liberty, not some privacy. Doesn't mean I agree with what the NSA might or might not be doing, but I'm tired of people not using this quotation correctly.


The absence of proof.


Secondarily, I highly doubt anyone at NORAD or the NSA is stupid enough to have that kind of material on the internet. You used to be able to go to NORAD and take a "civilian" tour where they told you that part I mentioned openly. It's not exactly classified.
 
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post #85 of 246
Disgusting.
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post #86 of 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by littledonny View Post

The only problem with your assumption is that none of the information collected would pass 4th Amendment muster, and thus it would be inadmissible as evidence against you at trial. Without independent evidence that was gathered without running afoul of the 4th Amendment, the government would have no case at trial. Because of that, no district attorney would prosecute the case.

Spectrum isn't being used to build cases against United States citizens for domestic crimes. It's being used to gather intelligence and act on legitimate threats to national security outside of the traditional jurisdictional reach of the United States courts.

As long as the Supreme Court doesn't turn 200 years of settled law on its head by explicitly carving out an exception to the 4th Amendment for allowing this type of evidence to be used at trial, then Spectrum gives no more power to affirmatively police domestic crime than existed before.

Sounds like what someone who is completely towing the line would say. Lets be honest here, who the hell actually trusts government with this sort of power? Who in their right mind actually believes they wouldn't abuse such power?

Also, to put in perspective on better terms exactly how much a zettabyte is:

1 zettabyte = 1,073,741,824 terabytes

Multiply that x5 and its the capacity for the Utah data center. They got enough space to store all data globally.

This is like something out of 1984.

If the total population of the Earth is 7 billion, that is about 766GBs of data per person. And most people in the world don't even have computers.
Edited by chaosblade02 - 6/11/13 at 5:27pm
post #87 of 246
So next week is going to be fun: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/11/cnews-us-usa-security-germany-idCABRE95A0T820130611
Quote:
Originally Posted by littledonny View Post

My post was specifically relating to US citizens, but you ignored that. From your obvious anti-US bias and your self-admitted lack of knowledge, I assume you're not American. I'll also step out on a limb and assume you have no legal training, because any educated person who had the audacity to accuse a group of people of war crimes wouldn't do so without making a compelling argument with citations to rules and specific alleged acts in violation of those rules.

I find myself trying to remember why I'm bothering to talk to someone so careless.

Well, I can't go into detail because OCN's ToS doesn't like politics (and thinks history = politics), but:
Easiest: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment
General: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_and_Sedition_Acts

There's two with little effort needed. Outside the US:
Cuban Missile Blockade was illegal
Napalm/Phsophorus in general (still used) is a banned weapon
The use of nukes was illegal
Canicatti, Dachau and Biscari massacre
etc.

The list goes on. No one was ever held accountable, though.
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post #88 of 246
Cleaned and reopened.

I realize it's very easy to steer into the political section given the subject we have but we had a similar thread last time and it turned very political.. As a result of that, we were forced to lock it. However, I am willing to give this thread one more chance to redeem itself. Please note that there won't be any more chances after this and we will be forced to lock it if things do get out of hand.
post #89 of 246
^ Hey, you left my history link post. Awesome thumb.gif Was worried that would be "political".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkpriest667 View Post

I removed the rest of your post because it was .. well nevermind. It wasn't worth anyone having to look at again. In 1986 NORAD databases had 10 Terabytes of storage. In 1986. In 1986. In 1986 <-- I am repeating that so you can understand that in 1986 the average computer didn't even have 100 Megabytes of storage. And this is NORAD. Not even the NSA but NORAD.

Gonna source that? I spent the last 10 minutes searching and have found nothing anywhere.
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post #90 of 246
Zetabytes seems a bit implausible, but then so did stealth fighters before they showed up. My biggest concern with the NSA sucking up and processing large swaths of internet traffic is that the ability to process and filter that data has become very sophisticated. I am very concerned about what it could morph into without proper controls. I want to know:
  • They have strong controls to prevent analysts from abusing their access to information.
  • There are strong controls to prevent the agency management from pulling a J. Edgar Hoover and blackmailing government officials.
  • There are Strong controls to prevent this form being used as a political weapon?
  • There are strong controls to prevent and reveal "fishing expeditions" to find targets for legitimate surveillance (sanitizing original source to avoid running afoul of 4th amendment).

Having someone tell me "trust us, it is stringently controlled" is much less comforting than, "trust us, it is audited by an outside agency for compliance and controls in these areas". Even if there are rules in place, people get sloppy with the 'unimportant details' when no one checks for compliance.

However, I do think gathering data on this scale would require an amendment to our constitution to be legitimate...
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