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Setup up local domain at home help (WIn Server 2008 R2) - Page 2

post #11 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyReZar View Post

Wow thanks for that detailed explanation, if I were to add a physical machine to the vm server I guess I would need to disable dns/dhcp completely from the router and use the server? Atm I don't have any physical machines connected to the domain but they can see the vm's on network discovery, I guess that wont be a problem?

I am somewhat scratching my head on this one. I don't think I am being quite clear. Your VMs and physical machines should not be able to communicate at all. For this to work you need your router to do dns and dhcp. All your physical machines would get an IP address from your router and forward dns for them. Inside your virtual network your Server 2008R2 VM will be doing AD/DC, DNS, and DHCP. It will provide IP addresses and forward DNS requests within your virtual network.

In essence the IP address assigned to to your VM host by your router acts just like your external address given to you by your ISP. On your physical network your router is the gateway to get out to the internet. On your virtual network the VM host is the gateway to the internet. As far as the VMs are concerned they are connected directly to your modem.

Read through this: http://www.windowsnetworking.com/articles-tutorials/windows-server-2008/Building-Test-Labs-Hyper-V-Part1.html

Then this: http://www.windowsnetworking.com/articles-tutorials/windows-server-2008/Running-Windows-Server-2008-R2-Installing-Creating-Lab-Domain-Controller-Part1.html


And then this: http://www.windowsnetworking.com/articles-tutorials/windows-server-2008/Running-Windows-Server-2008-R2-Installing-Creating-Lab-Domain-Controller-Part2.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyReZar View Post

I have tried setting up users docs so they are saved on the server and not on the local client but cant get that to work so will abandon that for the minute and will concentrate on imaging I think.

When big organisations and network admins want to create a image to deploy to their organisation, do they have a 100mb hidden partition with the windows boot files or do they include that into one partition? I am working on building a image to test and deploy to a home machine using MDT but when using imagex I realised you cant image the hidden partition, so what is the common solution to placing the boot files since windows makes this hidden partition by default?

I can say this part will be challenging. Your set up needs to be absolutely perfect to get WDS working. It also depends on what exactly you are wanting to do. Are your trying to network boot an image or network boot to the windows pe (preinstallation environment) and then install windows 7, or even just push an image to a hardrive? I have some experience with it but not a lot. Take a look around the windowsnetworking.com site. They have tutorials on setting that up.
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post #12 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylepdalton View Post

I am somewhat scratching my head on this one. I don't think I am being quite clear. Your VMs and physical machines should not be able to communicate at all. For this to work you need your router to do dns and dhcp. All your physical machines would get an IP address from your router and forward dns for them. Inside your virtual network your Server 2008R2 VM will be doing AD/DC, DNS, and DHCP. It will provide IP addresses and forward DNS requests within your virtual network.

In essence the IP address assigned to to your VM host by your router acts just like your external address given to you by your ISP. On your physical network your router is the gateway to get out to the internet. On your virtual network the VM host is the gateway to the internet. As far as the VMs are concerned they are connected directly to your modem.

Read through this: http://www.windowsnetworking.com/articles-tutorials/windows-server-2008/Building-Test-Labs-Hyper-V-Part1.html

Then this: http://www.windowsnetworking.com/articles-tutorials/windows-server-2008/Running-Windows-Server-2008-R2-Installing-Creating-Lab-Domain-Controller-Part1.html


And then this: http://www.windowsnetworking.com/articles-tutorials/windows-server-2008/Running-Windows-Server-2008-R2-Installing-Creating-Lab-Domain-Controller-Part2.html
I can say this part will be challenging. Your set up needs to be absolutely perfect to get WDS working. It also depends on what exactly you are wanting to do. Are your trying to network boot an image or network boot to the windows pe (preinstallation environment) and then install windows 7, or even just push an image to a hardrive? I have some experience with it but not a lot. Take a look around the windowsnetworking.com site. They have tutorials on setting that up.
Well my physical and vm's can talk to each other as it stands, my router is doing both dns and dhcp but my vm server is doing dns I guess just for my vm client. Thanks though I will read through those links and try to understand it more.

I was planning on trying a network boot and direct to the hard drive with a usb stick. Ive been watching the professor messer videos on deployment and think I will be ok with that actually. He is very good at explaining what he is doing and what needs to be done.
post #13 of 19
Well if it is working for you then go ahead with it. Just whatever you do don't join your main computer to the domain. That is where the trouble comes from usually. It isn't to bad to switch a pc from one domain to another but moving a pc from a domain back to a workgroup is somewhat painful (I learned that the hard way which is why I'm stressing getting the network setup right to begin with).

On your way through learning deployment you should check out PXE booting with WDS. I push a custom XBMC Live image to some HTPC boxes around my place. The same thing applies to the windows PE setup. Fairly easy once you get everything set up.

http://www.howtogeek.com/162809/how-to-pxe-boot-an-ubuntu-image-from-windows-server-2008/

Hopefully I haven't confused you more than I have helped. It is easy to get sucked into this stuff. There are a million different ways to do some of this it so try them all. Keep playing with it till it breaks. thumb.gif
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post #14 of 19
The WDS role is an unmitigated pain in the ass. Either use MDT or set up SCCM (also a pain, but worth the effort) and run WDS through that.
    
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post #15 of 19
Thread Starter 
Thanks again guys but now for some reason my physical machine cant see my vm server anymore, it can see the vm client connected to the servers domain. And my physical machine can ping the server successfully and the server can ping the physical machine successfully. The physical machine is the host of the vm server btw. I have dns, dhcp, AD and wds running on the server and have left my router untouched so far.

Im not planning on connecting my physical host to the domain but just to see it so I can test MDT/WDS through virtual box. Any ideas? @kyle, I aplogise if you have already given me the answer earlier but im new to networking and this is getting a bit overwhelming and cant see where im standing atm.

EDIT, ok this is weird, my server just this minute popped up on my physical machine network discovery. It seems it connects to it when it wants. Is there anything i can do to stop this happening?

EDIT 2 Now its gone again

EDIT 3 It only appears to be visible when my vm client is on.....
Edited by RyReZar - 6/21/13 at 10:12am
post #16 of 19
To be honest I'm a bit lost of how you have this setup. Tell me how many machines you have running. Which one is hosting your VMs? I see two rigs in your signature (white storm and white blizzard). I may be able to sort out what you are doing from that.

This is what it should look like:


I think perhaps you just need to use virtual machines exclusively for learning and testing. Nothing you are doing requires access to the internet so just removing that option may make this easier to understand. What you want is a internal network type. Tell me what software you are creating the VMs with and I will try and walk you through the setup.

This can be some nitpicky stuff. It seems like you want to learn about servers and networking. I think you may have some fundamental networking skills but not very much about virtual networking. I think you need to start with learning everything about virtual machines and software for that first.

Why? To make life much simpler for you. Working with virtual machines is a lot easier than trying to set things up with machines that are already working. You are going to make mistakes with this stuff which may require you to go all the way back to a fresh OS install. Which is not fun at all.

I spent quite a few weekends testing and playing with domain setups inside virtual machines. At first it was just basic machines with the OS and roles installed. Then I moved onto using SCCM (System Center Configuration Manager) and P2V (Physical to Virtual Machine) to recreate almost exact copies of my machines as VM's just to test my setup before I actually roll it out to my systems. Excessive? Yes, but I knew what I was doing and how to do it when I was ready too.
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post #17 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylepdalton View Post

To be honest I'm a bit lost of how you have this setup. Tell me how many machines you have running. Which one is hosting your VMs? I see two rigs in your signature (white storm and white blizzard). I may be able to sort out what you are doing from that.

This is what it should look like:
Thanks that is how its pretty much setup although the ip of my server is 192.168.0.15 and the other clients are pulling the ip from the dhcp on the router im guessing. So should I setup the servers ip like you have and disconnect it from the internet? I do need my server to connect to my host machine though (through virtualbox) otherwise I cant add iso's etc from MDT. Or that's atleast how professor messer did it http://www.professormesser.com/microsoft-70-680/deploying-a-system-image/ still not sure if MDT and WDS are separate or you use them together.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylepdalton View Post

I think perhaps you just need to use virtual machines exclusively for learning and testing. Nothing you are doing requires access to the internet so just removing that option may make this easier to understand. What you want is a internal network type. Tell me what software you are creating the VMs with and I will try and walk you through the setup.

This can be some nitpicky stuff. It seems like you want to learn about servers and networking. I think you may have some fundamental networking skills but not very much about virtual networking. I think you need to start with learning everything about virtual machines and software for that first.

Why? To make life much simpler for you. Working with virtual machines is a lot easier than trying to set things up with machines that are already working. You are going to make mistakes with this stuff which may require you to go all the way back to a fresh OS install. Which is not fun at all.
Right I see, I am using virtualbox. Could you guide me in setting up the dhcp roles in the server? as im not sure what scope to use etc. Could be part of my problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylepdalton View Post

I spent quite a few weekends testing and playing with domain setups inside virtual machines. At first it was just basic machines with the OS and roles installed. Then I moved onto using SCCM (System Center Configuration Manager) and P2V (Physical to Virtual Machine) to recreate almost exact copies of my machines as VM's just to test my setup before I actually roll it out to my systems. Excessive? Yes, but I knew what I was doing and how to do it when I was ready too.
Can I ask, do you have a paid license for server 2012 standard? as im using server 2008 r2 standard trial and its nearing its end. Wondering what the norm is when using vm servers and clients come to that and their activations.
post #18 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyReZar View Post

Thanks that is how its pretty much setup although the ip of my server is 192.168.0.15 and the other clients are pulling the ip from the dhcp on the router im guessing. So should I setup the servers ip like you have and disconnect it from the internet? I do need my server to connect to my host machine though (through virtualbox) otherwise I cant add iso's etc from MDT. Or that's atleast how professor messer did it http://www.professormesser.com/microsoft-70-680/deploying-a-system-image/ still not sure if MDT and WDS are separate or you use them together.

Ok now I get what is going on with your setup. I kept wondering why you needed network access between your VM-host and VM's. I think I can steer you in the right direction now. I'll put together or find a tutorial I made earlier that will show you how to deal with storage sharing between VMs and the VM-host. That will be much easier to deal with.

Ok now for a little explanation about WDS and MDT. They can be used together or separately. The use differences are what it comes down to. For instance if I had a small lab with 5 PCs that needed to be set up I could use MDT to create a custom image. I create the image with the OS and other programs I want installed. It creates the image and puts the image in the "share" folder. I can then take a Windows PE disk to each machine and use the PE environment to point towards the deployment share image and get the setup process started.

WDS can do the same things and then a little more. If I had 20 machines to set up then going from one machine to the next one at a time would take forever and I don't want to bother with a PE disk then WDS is the way to go. I create the image I want to deploy (could be done with WDS or MDT with MDT allowing for easier customization) and then set up a PXE boot situation. I can go to each PC I need to deploy and boot up. I use PXE boot to load the PE environment and then get to the image hosted by the WDS role. What makes WDS better here is the ability to multicast. As far as I know the MDT shares cannot be accessed by a lot of machines all at the same time because it is really just a network share. Doing 20 PCs would take forever.

You could go even further with using SCCM as well. Microsoft gives you 15 different ways to do something and most of them are absolute pains. I probably gave you more info than you needed or wanted but hopefully you got what you need out of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyReZar View Post


Right I see, I am using virtualbox. Could you guide me in setting up the dhcp roles in the server? as im not sure what scope to use etc. Could be part of my problem.

Yes, that is the problem entirely at the moment. You probably have two DHCP servers doing things and causing the VM's to drop a network connection and the reconnect constantly. I can walk you through the basic DHCP/DNS role install for you to continue on with your WDS practice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyReZar View Post

Can I ask, do you have a paid license for server 2012 standard? as im using server 2008 r2 standard trial and its nearing its end. Wondering what the norm is when using vm servers and clients come to that and their activations.

Technically I only own one Server 2008 R2 license with 5 CALs (I think). It was part of a business bundle setup with a lot of other software I use. I had it installed on a hard drive that now sits on my desk. I call the drive my $80,000 drive because that is how much the software packages and support would cost. At any rate I have the luxury of having full access to 3 different full MSDNAA accounts and a technet subscription. There is very little software that Microsoft makes that I don't have 3 or more licenses of.

As far as best practices with this I couldn't give you any real good information on that. I am a Ph.D. student and most of my work now has nothing to do with IT. I haven't really worked in any industry capacity for this either. I have done a lot of this stuff though with prior research work and rapid deployments of critical systems. The rapid deployment situations are really my only experiences outside of academia and hobbies.

It may take me a little while to get together some step by step procedures for you. I have a lot of this typed up in tutorials but I can not remember where I have them saved at. It has been awhile since I went through them.
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post #19 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylepdalton View Post

Ok now I get what is going on with your setup. I kept wondering why you needed network access between your VM-host and VM's. I think I can steer you in the right direction now. I'll put together or find a tutorial I made earlier that will show you how to deal with storage sharing between VMs and the VM-host. That will be much easier to deal with.

Ok now for a little explanation about WDS and MDT. They can be used together or separately. The use differences are what it comes down to. For instance if I had a small lab with 5 PCs that needed to be set up I could use MDT to create a custom image. I create the image with the OS and other programs I want installed. It creates the image and puts the image in the "share" folder. I can then take a Windows PE disk to each machine and use the PE environment to point towards the deployment share image and get the setup process started.

WDS can do the same things and then a little more. If I had 20 machines to set up then going from one machine to the next one at a time would take forever and I don't want to bother with a PE disk then WDS is the way to go. I create the image I want to deploy (could be done with WDS or MDT with MDT allowing for easier customization) and then set up a PXE boot situation. I can go to each PC I need to deploy and boot up. I use PXE boot to load the PE environment and then get to the image hosted by the WDS role. What makes WDS better here is the ability to multicast. As far as I know the MDT shares cannot be accessed by a lot of machines all at the same time because it is really just a network share. Doing 20 PCs would take forever.

You could go even further with using SCCM as well. Microsoft gives you 15 different ways to do something and most of them are absolute pains. I probably gave you more info than you needed or wanted but hopefully you got what you need out of it.
Yes, that is the problem entirely at the moment. You probably have two DHCP servers doing things and causing the VM's to drop a network connection and the reconnect constantly. I can walk you through the basic DHCP/DNS role install for you to continue on with your WDS practice.
Technically I only own one Server 2008 R2 license with 5 CALs (I think). It was part of a business bundle setup with a lot of other software I use. I had it installed on a hard drive that now sits on my desk. I call the drive my $80,000 drive because that is how much the software packages and support would cost. At any rate I have the luxury of having full access to 3 different full MSDNAA accounts and a technet subscription. There is very little software that Microsoft makes that I don't have 3 or more licenses of.

As far as best practices with this I couldn't give you any real good information on that. I am a Ph.D. student and most of my work now has nothing to do with IT. I haven't really worked in any industry capacity for this either. I have done a lot of this stuff though with prior research work and rapid deployments of critical systems. The rapid deployment situations are really my only experiences outside of academia and hobbies.

It may take me a little while to get together some step by step procedures for you. I have a lot of this typed up in tutorials but I can not remember where I have them saved at. It has been awhile since I went through them.
Thanks for your help again, sorry for the late reply but I haven't had time to play around with vm's much and wont do until next week sometime when I can properly read through your info and have a play. That's what I get for working 7 days a week tongue.gif
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