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The unspecific Mouse Thread - Page 57

post #561 of 2098
Rectilinear, then threshold limit, now time varying?

Can you make a single description of what I'm supposed to be missing? I seriously can't follow you at all. I understood rectilinear, but I don't understand where thresholds or time variance are supposed to come into how DPI masks internal jitter at all.
post #562 of 2098
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruzanHD View Post

Bucake, sand down the little grooves where the feet go and then just use intellimouse feet.

not sure if i can get myself to harm my mouse frown.gif but thanks for the suggestion smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soo8 View Post

Why are people too lazy to make their own mouse feet? It's like 0.1$ of materials per set. And you can shape them anyway you like too.

That rant aside, Hotline ones are the better ones. Tiger feet sometimes don't fit properly. Corepad feet are expensive and not worth it, similar to hotline in terms of finishing.

thanks for the reply, i'll keep it in mind.

i guess i'll order a sheet of 0.5mm and one of 1mm.
how would you apply the teflon, with thin double-sided tape?
and is there anything i should look out for, or are all the "teflon ptfe" sheets fine? i want to be sure i get the good stuff rolleyes.gif
post #563 of 2098
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucake View Post

not sure if i can get myself to harm my mouse frown.gif but thanks for the suggestion smile.gif
thanks for the reply, i'll keep it in mind.

i guess i'll order a sheet of 0.5mm and one of 1mm.
how would you apply the teflon, with thin double-sided tape?
and is there anything i should look out for, or are all the "teflon ptfe" sheets fine? i want to be sure i get the good stuff rolleyes.gif

Buy some adhesive glue or just use double sided tape.
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post #564 of 2098
cheers smile.gif
post #565 of 2098
I was a little tempted to purchase the DM60(PMW3366) through a taobao agent, but meh. There's no way I'd ever use that mouse longer than a week(if it happened to be good).
post #566 of 2098
Quote:
Originally Posted by wareya View Post

Rectilinear, then threshold limit, now time varying?

Can you make a single description of what I'm supposed to be missing? I seriously can't follow you at all. I understood rectilinear, but I don't understand where thresholds or time variance are supposed to come into how DPI masks internal jitter at all.

I am glad you finally asked.

You seems quite fixated on the idea of jitter masked by a high threshold, but the whole point of the discussion is not on that.

While in paint test, the path of the cursor is recorded. It provides no context as to how those points are evolved. When you have a lower CPI, while the "grid" becomes much larger, the sequence of those points are much more regular (smoothed out). If the high CPI setting happens to have very high jitter, the sequence in which the points advance is much more irregular (imagine a path of no jitter in paint tests but the intervals highly irregular, not moving for a bit and then suddenly moving a few points). This contributes a lot more to the perception of "motion sickness" than just simply random angle error and is less able to be alleviated by the fact that it has smaller "grids", as we are much more sensitive to it than fluctuating angular error.



Threshold limit is on a different point altogether. Yes, with lower CPI the corresponding larger grid will compensate in some degree such that there is a point of optimization. But it is not going to be constant, the illustration using MSPaint with windows scaling is wholly misleading as Windows handles pointer multiplication poorly (it is incapable of operating on x and y movements simultaneously, resulting in always very bad apparent jitter).
post #567 of 2098
Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel0731ex View Post

I am glad you finally asked.
I need to ask you to actually explain something you repeatedly tell me that I don't understand?
Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel0731ex View Post

You seems quite fixated on the idea of jitter masked by a high threshold, but the whole point of the discussion is not on that.
It's not a threshold. It's rounding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel0731ex View Post

If the high CPI setting happens to have very high jitter, the sequence in which the points advance is much more irregular (imagine a path of no jitter in paint tests but the intervals highly irregular, not moving for a bit and then suddenly moving a few points). This contributes a lot more to the perception of "motion sickness" than just simply random angle error and is less able to be alleviated by the fact that it has smaller "grids", as we are much more sensitive to it than fluctuating angular error.
This is bonafide made-up. Sorry. Let me break it down:

1) Low CPIs have even more irregularity because they suddenly snap between speeds on a count by count basis when you are not moving the mouse an integer number of counts per second. When the CPI becomes low enough to hide jitter, this effect will be stronger than the jitter's warping, period.
2) Low CPIs do not eliminate drift. The quantization operates on the equivalent of the position, not the speeds. If they were capable of eliminating drift, they would cause strong angle snapping.
3) For me, extremely low CPIs (e.g. 100 CPI) cause much more motion sickness than the equivalent strength of jitter does. Yes, I have actually tested this on myself.
4) Reducing CPI does not, even eventually, reduce angular error, even if it's extremely small. In fact it probably increases it because the speed warping in point 2 operates on separate axes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel0731ex View Post

Threshold limit is on a different point altogether. Yes, with lower CPI the corresponding larger grid will compensate in some degree such that there is a point of optimization. But it is not going to be constant, the illustration using MSPaint with windows scaling is wholly misleading as Windows handles pointer multiplication poorly (it is incapable of operating on x and y movements simultaneously, resulting in always very bad apparent jitter).
...There is literally no difference between operating on X and Y individually or together, as long as you output the result properly. This isn't mouse acceleration. The reason it looks funny in that image is because 99% of mice output the axes one at a time when moving at extremely low speeds (exception being MLT04). The warping the MS paint test displays entirely exists when you look in 3d games, and yes, even with pure axial linear movement. See my tracking image posted earlier in the thread.
post #568 of 2098
fyi i didnt use windows scaling. i just set mspaint to 12.5% zoom and drew a line with a g303 set to 800cpi, zoomed back to 100% amd drew a line at 6400cpi
Quote:
Originally Posted by HAGGARD View Post

@qsxcv: What is the jitteriest piece of sh-ensor you know? Would be interesting to see for myself what feels worse; unmasked jitter at high CPI albeit low in-game sensitivity or the quantization at CPI that hides that jitter that comes with the increased in-game sens.
damn it, missed this post tongue.gif

for a given cpi, probably 3050 or maybe some office sensor.
at the max cpi step, well theres my 10500cpi am010.

also adding thickness to the mousefeet (as much as possible without causing skipping) is an easy way to make a sensor jitter more.
or get a laser sensor lens dusty
Edited by qsxcv - 2/7/16 at 11:24pm
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KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
kbp v80 matias quiet silverstone sx500-lg ncase m1 v3 logitech g100s with mcu replaced by teensy2.0 
Mouse PadAudioAudio
allsop raindrop xl chord mojo hifiman re-600 
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intel 330 180gb scythe kotetsu windows 8.1 pro sony cpd-g520 
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post #569 of 2098
New hybrid mouse



Edited by sprite08 - 2/9/16 at 9:08am
post #570 of 2098
Used Zowie CL for about a year but it felt a bit too big and heavy for me and I decided to go back to Abyssus because I prefer it's shape. Tried to buy original Abyssus and I ended up buying Abyssus 1800 thinking it was the old one, unaware the thing even existed. There's like no info on this mouse on the net besides this barely 2 page thread on overclock: http://www.overclock.net/t/1276615/razer-abyssus-1800/10

The thread is pretty old so anything I should know about it? Gonna play with it tonight and see how it feels.
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