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Upgrade Advice Needed

439 views 13 replies 3 participants last post by  patriotaki 
#1 ·
Given the latest news on the Intel road map, I'm scrapping my Ivy-E upgrade plans. That leaves me with either sticking with my current x58 / i930 build, or doing a "bridge/budget" upgrade until Haswell-E is released in 2H2014.

  • Current system = i7 930 @4GHz | Thermalright Archon Heatsink (2x140mm fans in push/pull) | 12GB (3x4GB) DDR3 @1528 (7-8-8-24 1T) | Crucial M4 256GB SSD on SATA 3GB/s native port | GTX580 3GB, but planning to upgrade to GTX780 soon.
  • Proposed Upgrade = Z77 chipset MB | Intel i7 2700k (Sandy) | 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3 PC2400 or 2133. Cost = about $600 - whatever I can get for my old MB/DRAM/CPU.
FYI - Going w/ 2700k since AFAIK, no TIM issues so better OC/temps. Also, I found one at a good price which puts the upgrade w/in my budget. As for the motherboard, nothing picked out yet. I like Asus (P8Z77 Sabertooth, Deluxe or Pro), but would consider Gigabyte (GA-Z77X-UD5H), MSI (MSI Z77A-GD65) or ASRock (Z77 Extreme6 or 4). Will be doing some research ASAP on that, but any motherboard suggestions are welcome. DRAM most likely G-Skill Trident X or Ripjaws.

I need to make a decision on this quickly (discounted 2700ks are hard to find and current upgrade price fits my budget). Problem is that I have no idea what kind of performance benefits I might expect inorder to determine whether the upgrade is worth the money.

Questions:
(1) Roughly, what kind of performance gain should I expect assuming at least a 4.6GHz OC (I think that's reasonable)? In particular, any idea for what I might expect in terms of video encoding speed (MeGUI), image editing (Photoshop, et.al.) and/or gaming?
(2) I think my 930 wouldn't limit the GTX780, but I can't say for sure, nor am I certain as to whether going from PCI-E 2.0 to 3.0 will make any difference as well. Any comments?

Any help is greatly appreciated.
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#2 ·
Firstly why will that cost 600? A good z77 board is only 120-150ish (I recommend my sig board, great board). How much for the 2700k? Shouldn't be much more than 200. I'm guessing 100ish for the ram? (although id recommend not upgrading the ram and just adding 1 more stick of 1600 ram, or even removing 1 stick and just goin with 8 gigs is enough for most purposes plus ram speeds over 2ghz make little difference, even over 1600 isnt much benefit).

Secondly id say if you can get decent money now for your x58 board and cpu then personally, id do it. But i always like to sell my hardware while it still holds at least 60-70% of its original value and upgrading to the newer tech for not much an investment. I did the same awhile ago, sold my x58 build for sig rig.

The gains though won't be too too much but decent, id guestimate around 20%ish.

Going from pcie 2 to 3 will make zero benefits with 1 card.
 
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#4 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluemustang View Post

Firstly why will that cost 600? A good z77 board is only 120-150ish (I recommend my sig board, great board). How much for the 2700k? Shouldn't be much more than 200. I'm guessing 100ish for the ram? (although id recommend not upgrading the ram and just adding 1 more stick of 1600 ram, or even removing 1 stick and just goin with 8 gigs is enough for most purposes plus ram speeds over 2ghz make little difference, even over 1600 isnt much benefit).
i7 2700k, at least new, was surprisingly expensive - $300-$400 for almost all the places I found one. Pretty sure Intel's not making anymore - NewEgg just has the 2600 (not the K version) at $315, Amazon has a one 2700k for $372, and a 2600k at $320. Search came up with pretty much those numbers. Best I could find so far was was $240 w/tax. DDR3 ram I listed above is $160 (NewEgg). It's hard to find just one stick, and I'm not sure what (if any) effect there is with trying to pair one stick in a triple channel set. Same set of Dual Channel is $130 so for $30, might as well get the better ram. Plus, I think it might be easier to sell the CPU, MB & dram all as set. As for motherboards, ASUS P8Z77-V PRO seems like the "safe" bet based on reviews I've read. Lowest price I found was $210 for a new board. ASUS P8Z77-V LK LGA might be a good alternative at $140 or ASUS P8Z77-V LGA = $180. Gigabyte & ASRock boards I'm considering are $140-$180.
Quote:
Secondly id say if you can get decent money now for your x58 board and cpu then personally, id do it. But i always like to sell my hardware while it still holds at least 60-70% of its original value and upgrading to the newer tech for not much an investment. I did the same awhile ago, sold my x58 build for sig rig.
That makes sense (one reason I'm also planning to upgrade my GPU). I'd be happy if I could get that much back. Hopefully selling my old CPU, MB & DRAM will go a long way in offsetting the upgrade costs.
Quote:
The gains though won't be too too much but decent, id guestimate around 20%ish.
Great - that's what i needed to know. 20% (approx) enough IMO for it to be worth the cost assuming I can get a decent price for my old stuff. I'd probably see some gains as well on the SSD side even with my older Crucial M4 since I could connect to a native SATA 6.0GB/s board. I plan to do some more research and see if I can find same test benchmarks for i7 930/95/960 and i7 2700/2600.
Quote:
Going from pcie 2 to 3 will make zero benefits with 1 card.
That's what I thought, but wasn't 100% sure. At some point I would think a single GPU would be powerful enough to fill PCI-E 2.0 bandwidth.

Update:
(1) FINALLY found a review with comparisson benchmarks including i920/930/etc and i2600k/2700k. Your guestimate is quite accurate, maybe even conservative - especially with a higher 2700k OC. For H264 encoding (Handbrake - X264), the difference was even greater with a 2700k at stock speed slightly outperforming a 920 OC'd to 4.06GHz!. More and more this is looking like a very worthwhile upgrade as long as I can net out for around $350 or so.
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(2) Found another article on clock speed vs. timing for DDR3 and I would definitely benefit from 2133 MHz DDR3 let alone 2400Mhz.

Now I just need to pick a motherboard & price shop!
 
#5 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by patriotaki View Post

keep your current system and if you wish oc it a bit more, start saving for the haswell-e chips.

I have a C2D system and i have no complaints so far..i am waiting for the haswell chips also
Thanks for the reply. My place gets hot in the summer so it's hard for me to justify the noticeably higher temps for 4.1GHz or 4.2GHz OC (which I can get). Those slightly higher clocks won't make that much of a difference. The main reason for the upgrade is that another 12-15 months is a long ways off and who knows if there won't be some other delay. Plus, I have quite a bit of long overdue video encoding to be done (my DVR is literally full), and thought about making it a summer project. You have a point which is why I'm on the fence about it, but if I can do the upgrade for net $300-$350 and see a 20% or so performance boost, then I think it's worth it.
 
#6 ·
Hmm im in Cyprus and my room is very hot during the summer i have 5 PC's running the same time and each pc has 2 monitors. Imagine all that heat in 1 small room xD

Get an AIO Cooler for CPU and oc the hell out of it
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make sure you have fans as intake and as exhaust (push/pull). And one more tip Open your windows after 2 am in the morning , so the cold air from outside can go into the PC, for me it worked. 5 celcius degrees less!
 
#7 ·
Thanks for the reply. LOL - yeah, I bet it gets a bit toasty with all those PCs. Opening the window won't help much since during peak summer months, nightly "lows" are typically 80+F and no refreshing seas breeze. BTW, my CPU heatsink is a Thermalright Archon w/ dual 140mm in push-pull so I'd have to go to maybe a H100i for any meaningful (i.e. more than 2C difference) AIO benefit. I would like to do that, but not possible with my case -single 120mm rad.

Should get confirm tomorrow, but it looks like I'll be able to snag a new 2700k for $206 ind. tax. Entire "upgrade" cost is right around $560, so if I can get $260 or more for my old MB/CPU/DDR3, net cost is $300 or less. IMO that represents a pretty good value for the expected performance boost. Just hope no DOA/defective parts or other troubles (*crosses fingers*).

FWIW, only thing left is to decide is which Z77 motherboard. After hours and hours of reading threads, review and user feedback, I had planned on Asus P8Z77-V Pro after the recent $20 price drop ($190). Been very happy w/ my current Asus MB, but reading about the current sub-standard Asus support makes me hesitate. Last thing I need for the MB to go bad after 30 days return period (skipping NewEgg for once and buying from Amazon) only to have an RMA hassle
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So now reconsidering Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD5H ($190) or perhaps MSI Z77A-GD65 LGA ($165). All three are good boards from what I've read. IDK... maybe flip a coin at this point XD.
 
#8 ·
Dont know about you, i only had msi and asus motherboards i like better the asus ones..

I also want to upgrade my old pc (new mobo,cpu and ram) and it all costs me 380 euro

i5 3570k
ripjaws z 8gb
asus z77 pro

you can do the same upgrade if you want its cheap and good, plus newer version of intel chips
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#9 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by patriotaki View Post

Dont know about you, i only had msi and asus motherboards i like better the asus ones..
I also want to upgrade my old pc (new mobo,cpu and ram) and it all costs me 380 euro
i5 3570k
ripjaws z 8gb
asus z77 pro
you can do the same upgrade if you want its cheap and good, plus newer version of intel chips
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True, though though I don't think it's too much difference in price - $60 (I think $380 Euro = about $500). Assuming I can get the i7 2700k at the price quoted above (still waiting on confirm
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) it's actually a little cheaper than the i5 3570k. Plus it has Hyper Threading (which I want) and 8MB of cache vs 6mb for i5 3570k. The 2700k is better with memory intensive applications (which I use at times) so it's simply a better choice for me. That's also why I'm getting 16GB of DDR3 rather than 8GB, though that does add another $80 or so and the 4GB sticks are a little faster in terms of latency. If I was planning on SLI, then I'd get an Ivy bridge CPU for PCI-E 3.0. That's one big advantage for Ivy Bridge over Sandy Bridge, but with only one GPU (even a Titan), my understanding is that 16 lanes of PCI-E 2.0 is just fine.

A i7 3770k costs another $120+. Plus, if you read Tom's Hardware article on overclocking the 3770k, you'll see that a 2600k @ 4.8GHz offers the same or slightly better performance overall than a i7 3770k @ 4.5GHz. Just a guess, but I expect 2700k temps will be better even with a higher OC. If Intel hadn't switched to cheap TIM (as to why I still can't fathom - it's not like solder's expensive), a 3770k might very well be worth an extra $100 since it should clock even better (22nm vs. 32nm) on top next gen efficiency gains. even if it cost more.

Yeah, I like Asus too (only motherboards I've owned since I started building my own PCs), but in the US, there's been a LOT of bad news regarding customer support/RMA. Bad enough for a board to go bad due to some defect, but refusing to honor the warranty or try to slip in an extra charge is adding insult to injury. I've read a lot of good things about MSI Z77A-GD65/Mpower as well as about Gigabyte's Z77 line up. well though I don't like fact Gigabyte uses a Marvell controller for the extra SATA 6GB/s ports. I've got one more issue to work out, but at this point, I'd say it's either the MSI or Asus board.

If you end up doing the upgrade, let me know how it works out.
 
#10 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by goesto11 View Post

True, though though I don't think it's too much difference in price - $60 (I think $380 Euro = about $500). Assuming I can get the i7 2700k at the price quoted above (still waiting on confirm
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) it's actually a little cheaper than the i5 3570k. Plus it has Hyper Threading (which I want) and 8MB of cache vs 6mb for i5 3570k. The 2700k is better with memory intensive applications (which I use at times) so it's simply a better choice for me. That's also why I'm getting 16GB of DDR3 rather than 8GB, though that does add another $80 or so and the 4GB sticks are a little faster in terms of latency. If I was planning on SLI, then I'd get an Ivy bridge CPU for PCI-E 3.0. That's one big advantage for Ivy Bridge over Sandy Bridge, but with only one GPU (even a Titan), my understanding is that 16 lanes of PCI-E 2.0 is just fine.

A i7 3770k costs another $120+. Plus, if you read Tom's Hardware article on overclocking the 3770k, you'll see that a 2600k @ 4.8GHz offers the same or slightly better performance overall than a i7 3770k @ 4.5GHz. Just a guess, but I expect 2700k temps will be better even with a higher OC. If Intel hadn't switched to cheap TIM (as to why I still can't fathom - it's not like solder's expensive), a 3770k might very well be worth an extra $100 since it should clock even better (22nm vs. 32nm) on top next gen efficiency gains. even if it cost more.

Yeah, I like Asus too (only motherboards I've owned since I started building my own PCs), but in the US, there's been a LOT of bad news regarding customer support/RMA. Bad enough for a board to go bad due to some defect, but refusing to honor the warranty or try to slip in an extra charge is adding insult to injury. I've read a lot of good things about MSI Z77A-GD65/Mpower as well as about Gigabyte's Z77 line up. well though I don't like fact Gigabyte uses a Marvell controller for the extra SATA 6GB/s ports. I've got one more issue to work out, but at this point, I'd say it's either the MSI or Asus board.

If you end up doing the upgrade, let me know how it works out.
Oh sorry my mistake i read 2600k instead of 2700k , if you can find it go for it! in my country all the second gen cpu's are discontinued! I wanted the 2600k for my upgrade but cant find it thats why i chose 3570k.
Take the 2700k
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. As for the mpower motherboard of MSI i find it a little bid childish with that dragon LOGO.. But its up to you! My opinion get the most common motherboard so you can find easier solutions if a problem exist.
Also if its a small upgrade and you are not going to have this pc for more than 1-2 years take the MSI so you can test it out and have a final opinion about motherboards on your future builds
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#11 ·
Yeah, the whole upgrade really depends upon me getting that CPU at a well discounted price (or I guess a 3770k for almost the same price, but I don't see that happening anytime soon). The 2nd gen CPUs are discontinued here as well, and it took me quite a bit of time and a little negotiating to find one at a good discount. The few new 2700ks left online are as expensive or more expensive than the 3770k!

Regrettably, I'm having trouble getting in contact with the store manager to confirm that the transfer request was received and my CPU set aside for delivery
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. Estimated time was two weeks as it was so I don't want to lose anymore days. Plus, I need to make sure something went wrong and I end up with a motherboard and DRAM, but no CPU. Very frustrating since I found the motherboard I decided upon on sale locally, but only for the next couple of days. *sigh* Guess I'll try to reach the manager again tomorrow.
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Regarding the motherboard, I'm going with MSI Z77A-GD65. I agree about the dragon logo (could be worse), but I wouldn't see it anyway
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. IIRC, the MPower didn't have enough on board SATA connections (I need eight!). Frankly all the of boards I mentioned are good boards for the Z77 chipset, but in the end, I realized something that made the decision pretty easy. I have an Asus Essense STX sound card which I like very much and definitely want to use. While looking at MB layouts & features, I suddenly realized that PCI-E x1 slot placement relative to the primary PCI--E x16 (full bandwidth) slot might be important for GPU cooling. Hard to express by words alone so see the picture below.



You can see that the sound card will fit, but it doesn't allow for much, if any, airflow to the back side of the graphics card. It might actually add heat. Both Asus and Gigabyte have two PCI-E x1 slots on either side of the primary PCI-E graphics cards slot, but in reality only one usable slot since the second one (on the left) will be covered up by any decent graphics card. Even if it wasn't, the Essence STX is a fairly long sound card and would certainly restrict airflow to the graphics cards fan's. It wouldn't be an issue if the second PCI-E graphics card slot would run at full bandwidth (x16) if there was only one graphics card installed, but no matter what, that slot is limited to x8.

As you can see below, the MSI board has two more PCI-E x 1 slots ("C" & "D") than the other boards. With the sound card in PCI-E x1 slot "D" at the end and the graphics card in the primary "x16" slot, there should be plenty of room for air flow on both sides of the GPU.



It may sound like I'm making too much of this, but Nvidia's new OC system is based off of GPU temps so I want to keep them as low as possible. If nothing else, I save about about $40 after rebate by going with the MSI Z77A-GD65.
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#13 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by patriotaki View Post

You did a good research my friend
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. I now agree with you take the msi one .

When you will get the parts?
Thanks
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. When I get the parts is the problem. That MSI motherboard is on sale locally ($148 or so after $30 MIR), but limited supplies (obviously) and only until the end of the month. If I miss it, then not a huge deal (maybe $15 extra online). Everything is held up b/c of the CPU. Assuming the store transfer request was received and processed, it's like two weeks minimum (which is why I'm trying to confirm that it was received/acknowledge - if I wait until delivery is late, they'll be completely gone!). At best, (*fingers crossed*), CPU next Friday - which also means I need to order that DDR3 and some TIM (always forget that LOL) this weekend or Monday. Bah, REALLY hope I can get in touch with a store manager tomorrow so I can move forward on the rest. Anyway, best answer I can give is some time between next Friday and the Friday after that.

How about you? Any upgrade schedule completion date?

Gah, almost forgot. I'm going to upgrade my front panel ports to USB 3.0 (Silverstone FT02 front panel upgrade). Need to order that as well.
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