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post #11 of 14
I love the new 180mm AP182's, they actually are the absolute best 180mm+ fans you can buy, and fix all the issues that the previous APs have.

Static pressure is also a dynamic value, and the more static pressure, the more airflow through a restricted area. You can basically see it as a measure of how a fan will perform in any situation aside from totally free air.

I am on my phone, but you can Google and find plenty of fan roundups showing the poor performance of the 120/140 APs.
   
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post #12 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by nleksan View Post

I love the new 180mm AP182's, they actually are the absolute best 180mm+ fans you can buy, and fix all the issues that the previous APs have.

Static pressure is also a dynamic value, and the more static pressure, the more airflow through a restricted area. You can basically see it as a measure of how a fan will perform in any situation aside from totally free air.

I am on my phone, but you can Google and find plenty of fan roundups showing the poor performance of the 120/140 APs.

I don't doubt that they perform poorly... I just wanted some citing... google is good enough though.

I don't want to get into a definition of words battle because I screw them up all the time BUT... When you say Static pressure is also a dynamic value (by definition it can't be) I think you mean that the pressure drops in a near linear way in regards to the RPM, CFM, and Restriction.

I have a hard time believing this and I am not trying to upset you but if you could actually give a link for that one when you have time please do. I simply want to learn about this it is not that I am directly challenging you. It is just that I once thought what you think now and I was absolutely schooled by someone who knew a lot more and had a science background. After his very detailed explanation and some fact checking on my part to make sure he wasn't full of it I came to the following conclusion: Static pressure can only give you insight into a fans performance under the most restrictive situations and that it can't really be compared from one company to another since testing standards have not been made which could result in wild variations.

Again though no surprise that the APs are not good for radiators but I would have thought it wouldn't necessarily have anything to do with it being designed to direct air but more that it wasn't designed to force it as much as some of the other brands. Also my experience with the APs is limited specifically to the 180s. I thought the AP fans ability to direct air had more to do with the thing it had in the front than to do with the blade profiles it sounds like I may be wrong... because those things up front shouldn't affect it's ability to have a high static pressure at least by much.
Edited by givmedew - 6/25/13 at 6:53pm
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post #13 of 14
Quote:
the pressure drops in a near linear way in regards to the RPM, CFM, and Restriction.
As RPM increases, CFM increases, and mmAq spec increases.. but as mmAq increase CFM decrease until it reaches 0.0 CFM. At this point the static pressure is at it's maximum level of mmAq and there is no airflow (0 CFM)


Not sure this is what you want but it's an interesting read of airflow versus static pressure in agricultural buildings. Think of building as computer case; the inlet evaporative cool cell or other inlet components, under/below various baffles as computer grill, filter,cables and components.
.05" = 1.27mm; .15" = 3.81mm
http://www.asi.ksu.edu/doc5131.ashx


RPM vs CFM vs mmAq
Very limited RPM range of 1500-1640rpm but you can see the correlation; as RPM decreases so does
http://www.corsair.com/us/blog/corsair-air-series-fan-terminology-and-testing

Page 19 shows CFM vs mmAq graphs at 650, 700 & 750RPM. The shape of graph lines is the same for all 3; only the CFM & mmAq numbers change.
http://www.solutionsforair.com/dayton_content/pdfs/ventilationfundamentals.pdfj

Page 5 graph; 700RPM graph line curve is slightly different to 1400RPM line but we don't have long enough 700 RPM graph line to really see if they are same or not.
http://www.greenheck.com/media/pdf/qdcatalog/FanFundamentals.pdf

Hope this helps. smile.gif
Edited by doyll - 6/26/13 at 2:46am
post #14 of 14
Specifically I would like to see 2 or more fans with similar max CFM output (rpm not the issue) with much much different max rpm Static Pressure outputs all measured at running at max RPM with the variable being resistance and the data being both CFM and Pressure.

So I guess build a box with an adjustable size hole in it. Have a pressure sensor inside the box and outside the box where the hole is have a tube that is as large or larger than the size of the largest hole setting sealed around the hole. That tube leading to the CFM sensor that it sized properly enough to not create resistance itself.

Compile the data.

What would be important (at least I would think) is to see what CFM was at each level of restriction. Do the fans with lower static pressure have a significantly lower pressure at a specific outlet aperture size? Does it scale well in comparison to each other...

Does the CFM output stay parallel to the PSI or BAR reading?

I cam going to look through those tests and see if they have any data that answers my question.

I would really like to know... because I would like to know how big of a deal that ratting actually is....

Because the other HUGE issue I see with using static pressure it that it doesn't really account for PERFORMANCE the way that we do. For example... I want a quiet fan so I buy a ~2000RPM CoolerMaster Blademaster at full blast the blademaster is very acceptable as far as noise is concerned...

Blademaster
moves 21.2 - 76.8 CFM through 600-2000RPM
can hit static pressure rates of 0.40 – 3.90 mmH2O through 600-2000RPM

Xcalibur
26.4 - 85.6 CFM same rpm range
0.75 - 3.53 mmH2O same rpm range.

So why do I bring these up? 2 fans same size same RPM range Wildly different BLADE design. The Blademaster is tolerable at 100% the xcalibur is NOT tolerable at 100%... The blade master is louder (or is at least perceived to be which could be because it is at a much different pitch)

This is a really funny one for me... so the one claims a better starting pressure the other boasts a better ending pressure... I can say that it would be my expectation that Xcalibur keep its lead all the other toward the top until almost no air is force through and then it just loose the psi race because the way the fan is made. It has hole on the sides that would normally be sealed. I'm sure these holes do not help the absolute total static preasure.

So would like to see how do these fans perform under restriction.

I think that similar to a pump output curve there will be some finding that will make us take a look at some different stats... or at least need proof.

On its face and according to the stats some people may saw well the Xcalibur is not as good as the Blademast for water cooling... The problem is that the specs show that the xcalibur has a substantially higher pressure at 600RPM and measureable increase in CFM in it other test at 600RPM. BUT for some reason blademaster is better at 2000RPM then the Xcalibur... but at what RPM level does those lines intersect because they will be near the top where almost the entire range of the xcalibur is usueful or will it be in the middle where all of a sudden CFM or not the bladmaster pulls through.

But then although all that data matters... in the end the one that matters most is with how much of that CFM it could have gotten in open air actually get through the restriction aperture to be measured by our flow monitor.


Anyone interested in proving or disproving these ideas?

If people are actually interested and can't find similar tests I would be willing well build the box to agreed on specs for box, fan mounting position 1 or 2 fan testing and the tubing... I would need someone to help figure out measuring the CFM without cause a restriction that was smaller than the largest hole size measured restriction.

I could supply boxes of 120MM fans and could secure through refundable payment any other fans people want tested. In other words I would be willing to purchase fans from people so long as the expectation is that I can sell them back to you when done.

Let me know..

Also like I said I am going to read of that data and see if it makes a difference.

-=

The hole reason it matters to me is because people quote static pressures all the time but how does that pressure handle up at a pressure that may be on a radiator which is far less.
Edited by givmedew - 6/26/13 at 3:31am
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