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[SA] Bitcoin Foundation Under Attack in California - Page 2

post #11 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by dekciW View Post

This is a quote from wiki about bitcoins. I was reading something about this a while back and decided not to get into bitcoins because of it. I am assuming this is what is happening here. Important stuff is in bold...Also I am a Californian and I'm pretty sure this is bigger then just California.
If that is the case, then anyone who sells something on second life is a money transmitter now too, because it is literally the exact same basic function. A digital thing being exchanged for money.
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post #12 of 104
I thought mining wasn't worth it at this point. I've got dual 6850s, think that's worthwhile?
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post #13 of 104
cant tax an electronic good that isnt based there. california loses this fight. lol
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post #14 of 104
the bitcoin foundation has nothing to do with exhanges or transfering BTC, so not sure what the point of this is
post #15 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by dzalias View Post

I thought mining wasn't worth it at this point. I've got dual 6850s, think that's worthwhile?
No, its not. You'll burn 4x the energy than you'll ever make anymore. Graphics mining of bitcoin is dead, unless you don't pay for power.

On topic: it is a black-market only currency. All other transactions effectively peg it to its value against the dollar. Yes you can buy consumer goods, but it will never stand on its own as a currency because its value comes from the exchange rate on mt gox.

Can't blame California for trying to clamp down on an untaxable black market currency.
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post #16 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masta Squidge View Post

If that is the case, then anyone who sells something on second life is a money transmitter now too, because it is literally the exact same basic function. A digital thing being exchanged for money.

Not really. Something on Second Life being sold has a function, a utility in the game. The sole function of BitCoins is for purchasing goods or services or exchanging the digital currency for the currency of a state. Unlike other digital goods, it has no utility function or aesthetic value, all it is good for is purchasing stuff.

And before you dive even further into trying to distinguish it from digital goods or services (which it is not), keep in mind that it is actively referred to by Bitcoin miners and those who made Bitcoins as a digital currency. It was designed specifically to be used as money. While you could argue that it is closer to stocks than it is to currency, even that argument falls flat since stocks are tied to the market performance of a company.
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post #17 of 104
So, because you say it is a thing, then it becomes different from another functionally identical thing.

Got it.

It is a piece of software which has been given value. At the end of the day the only thing different about these lines of code is that it exists purely to sell for something else. One could argue that I play second life purely to create something to sell for something else, be it other in game items, or real currency. In which case, there is still no difference.

The person gains an item of use, no matter what that use it, in exchange for goods or services. The use of a bitcoin is to trade. It is a digital product with a use and a value that is defined by demand. The value of money is not demand based. As you pointed out though, stocks are. And stocks are not considered to be a money transfer. Stocks are considered to be a product which is bought and sold, whos sole purpose is to lose, hold, or gain value. They are not treated as currency, nor should bitcoins. The difference between stocks and bitcoins is only that one typically does not trade a stock for an iPod.

I would personally consider bitcoins and the like to be nothing more than "stock in the digital realm".

For the record I understand what you are saying, I am simply presenting my defense of the case.
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post #18 of 104
Question:

What about taxes? If you get compensated for something in Bitcoins [whether that is actually money or other item of value], that is income?

Do people claim their bitcoins on their tax returns?
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post #19 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by avesdude View Post

No, its not. You'll burn 4x the energy than you'll ever make anymore. Graphics mining of bitcoin is dead, unless you don't pay for power.

On topic: it is a black-market only currency. All other transactions effectively peg it to its value against the dollar. Yes you can buy consumer goods, but it will never stand on its own as a currency because its value comes from the exchange rate on mt gox.

Can't blame California for trying to clamp down on an untaxable black market currency.

It really is a black market currency and that's what this is about is clamping down on digital black market currencies. The Linden (Second Life dollars) Is not a black market currency and it is taxable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nubbinator View Post

Not really. Something on Second Life being sold has a function, a utility in the game. The sole function of BitCoins is for purchasing goods or services or exchanging the digital currency for the currency of a state. Unlike other digital goods, it has no utility function or aesthetic value, all it is good for is purchasing stuff.

And before you dive even further into trying to distinguish it from digital goods or services (which it is not), keep in mind that it is actively referred to by Bitcoin miners and those who made Bitcoins as a digital currency. It was designed specifically to be used as money. While you could argue that it is closer to stocks than it is to currency, even that argument falls flat since stocks are tied to the market performance of a company.

Not to mention that LL will send you a 1033 form in the mail after you sell a certain amount of goods (I believe the 500 dollar mark is the federal requirement)
 
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post #20 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkpriest667 View Post

It really is a black market currency and that's what this is about is clamping down on digital black market currencies. The Linden (Second Life dollars) Is not a black market currency and it is taxable.
Not to mention that LL will send you a 1033 form in the mail after you sell a certain amount of goods (I believe the 500 dollar mark is the federal requirement)
600 I believe, but nothing is stopping people from selling these items outside of the game, nothing other than terms of use, and we all know how well THAT stops people.

It was a purely arbitrary point by the way.
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