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If Haswell is bad for Overclocking, will any next generation fix it? - Page 4

post #31 of 37
It's a trend Intel is going down, ignoring the desktop enthusiasts and going primarily for mobile. After Sandy they used their crappy thermal gunk which is totally unnecessary. I'm pretty sure Intel is aware of this issue, they just don't care. I don't see AMD putting up sufficient pressure to make Intel care enough. That new AMD 5ghz chip isn't available for individual sale on Newegg I heard, and it's an overclocked 8350 with nuclear heat. As a gamer I find it lackluster. I doubt it can overclock that much higher given TDP and same architecture. And from what I've seen 5ghz AMD or Intel? I'd pick Intel.

Haswell didn't even come with a transistor shrink IIRC. IPC improvements are not enough to beat a well-done Sandy which has been known to go 5ghz on air... Maybe if you have very high end water cooling... or if you delid. It's beyond stupidity that we have to delid CPUs. Haswells as it stands right now, from data I can get not delidded, Haswell performance won't beat Sandy Bridge from 2 generations ago. That's a head scratcher there. There's a big difference across GPU generations on the other hand. Granted if you want to delid and you've got the water cooling mojo, ok.

Otherwise,
Nuclear heat, baby.

Time will tell but I'm a pessimist in almost everything so... mad.gif
I mean, the technology isn't BAD in the sense that it's slow as heck, I just expected more.
That is just my opinion of course.
Edited by Darkwizzie - 6/26/13 at 1:29am
   
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post #32 of 37
Meh I will just use all that heat for hot snacks tongue.gif
    
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post #33 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by FtW 420 View Post

3.) Or get ~5.0ghz out of Ivy.

Read back on the ivy bridge threads, when it came out people were upset that sandy bridge could OC easily to 4.5 - 5Ghz & with ivy bridge cpus people were only getting 4.2 - 4.5Ghz.
The haswell threads are repeating the exact same things, & now more people are getting haswells up over 4.5Ghz with a couple so far hitting 5ghz.
My thoughts exactly.
post #34 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post

It's a trend Intel is going down, ignoring the desktop enthusiasts and going primarily for mobile. After Sandy they used their crappy thermal gunk which is totally unnecessary. I'm pretty sure Intel is aware of this issue, they just don't care. I don't see AMD putting up sufficient pressure to make Intel care enough. That new AMD 5ghz chip isn't available for individual sale on Newegg I heard, and it's an overclocked 8350 with nuclear heat. As a gamer I find it lackluster. I doubt it can overclock that much higher given TDP and same architecture. And from what I've seen 5ghz AMD or Intel? I'd pick Intel.

Haswell didn't even come with a transistor shrink IIRC. IPC improvements are not enough to beat a well-done Sandy which has been known to go 5ghz on air... Maybe if you have very high end water cooling... or if you delid. It's beyond stupidity that we have to delid CPUs. Haswells as it stands right now, from data I can get not delidded, Haswell performance won't beat Sandy Bridge from 2 generations ago. That's a head scratcher there. There's a big difference across GPU generations on the other hand. Granted if you want to delid and you've got the water cooling mojo, ok.

Otherwise,
Nuclear heat, baby.

Time will tell but I'm a pessimist in almost everything so... mad.gif
I mean, the technology isn't BAD in the sense that it's slow as heck, I just expected more.
That is just my opinion of course.

You make some good points for sure. I've heard the new AMD chip is a monster, but close to $1000 through very hard-to-come-by sources. I could be completely wrong though, there's very little information I've seen about them.

The second part though, I honestly can't agree with. Of course "fateswarm" will call me out as bragging again, but this is just hands on experience I've had. Before delidding, I was still able to stabilize 4.8Ghz without throttling. Yeah, it was peaking into the 90's, but average core temperatures over a 50 pass run of LinX-AVX were ~74.5C across all 4 cores. I don't have high end water cooling honestly, just a stock Swiftech H220 All-in-one. I'm not going to lie though, I would have NEVER expected the H220 to perform as well as it is. I'm extremely happy I didn't overbudget on a custom loop at this point. Maybe down the road, but doubtful.

Again though, this is only experience with my personal retail 4770K. I've been fortunate enough to only need 1.3v for 4.9, and 1.247v for 4.8. Most require much more, and do indeed have harder times dealing with the output from higher Vcore. But, before fateswarm says I have a miracle chip, there are others supposedly having similar results. I've yet to see anyone hitting my numbers on air, but there are bound to be people in the same boat around 4.6/4.7 without delidding and on similar AOI coolers.

As far as IPC improvements, I haven't seen that many high overclock 3770K LinX Gflop scores, or Cinebench. I'll go check in a minute. But from the few I have seen, there was a 3770K @ 5.0Ghz putting out 115 Gflops somewhere. Increase that by 10%, then that by another 10%, and you have 139 Gflops. I currently get 141.3 @ 4.9, so I'd say the improvements are pretty steady of ~10%. I could be wrong though doh.gif

+Rep for reasonable response, btw.
post #35 of 37
Thread Starter 
OK, last attempt to give you logic. You are clutching at straws, mainly supported by your enthusiasm generated from the fact you got lucky and got the one in a thousand (most probably literally) that overclocks high.

The fact of the matter is OC 4770ks most of the time do not warrant an upgrade from Ivy and in some cases (mainly gaming), even Sandy.

You have to look at the big picture. You can't isolate it from previous gens or isolate it from people's uses.

Anyway, over and out, I genuinely have no time.
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post #36 of 37
http://www.overclock.net/t/1401976/the-gigabyte-z87-haswell-overclocking-oc-guide
Sift through the last couple of pages;

http://www.overclock.net/t/1398975/official-haswell-owners-thread
Some more stats can be found here.

You can estimate an average of Haswells potential. And then add the clock-for-clock performance increase.
/thread


"Next gen" will greatly fix it as soon as it goes back to soldered IHS. If not - we're going to have trolls all around.
It's not worth an upgrade from Ivy. From Sandy - you will benefit if you really need the extra bit of performance. Unless you get a total dud, but the odds are the same as a dud SB/IB.

So, please, stop that. adamlee05 has a decent chip, that is true. But if you spent 20 minutes you'd easily see how well Haswells perform in general. And people still learn the fine adjustments to a better degree.
Stop the arguments.
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post #37 of 37
Thread cleaned, please do not start another non-sense discussion, and most important, do not insult each other, try having a civil conversation.

I will not be cleaning the thread again, next time it'll be locked.
Edited by kcuestag - 6/26/13 at 3:32am
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