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Custom TEC questions

post #1 of 8
Thread Starter 

Apologies if any of these have been answered.  I did read the stickys.

 

1) Dielectric grease: you put it on the CPU socket where the pins go?  Doesn't that kill the electrical path between the pins and the board?

 

2) It seems to me that condensation is the big problem.  It certainly was when water killed my board AND my CPU a few years ago.  Yet insulation feels, I dunno... kludgy.  Omaryunus' insulation guide was fascinating, but his board looked like a Rube Goldberg invention, with crap all stuck to it. I feel that if I tried it, I'd kill the board somehow even before I plugged in the PS.

 

Has anyone thought of stopping condensation by blowing air, possibly warm air, on the board?

 

There's got to be an elegant way to prevent condensation.  Something like suck all the water from the air before it gets to your CPU, or put the board in a cold ambient environment.  Something. In the winter, I put my entire PC outdoors.  Subzero air blown onto a heatsink really, really works.  (The fact that I live in a tent outdoors helped).  Has anyone tried putting the whole thing in a small food freezer the size of a dorm fridge?

 

I even ran my board upside down for a while and let the water drip off onto a towel, but because I don't use a case, the graphics card kept threatening to fall out and so I chickened out.  Has anyone else tried that, but with a case?  I never considered that the back of the board might condense water, and it never did.

 

3) There used to be an outfit (cooler master?) that made preassembled TEC cooler solutions.  I had one and it was really slick.  It was factory sealed.  4 large TECs were strapped to a big radiator, and they had a water sleeve on the cold side. 

 

When the coolant level dropped because of black magic or dark side Jedi force or something, I stupidly threw it away since it wasn't fillable.  Then I discovered they don't make them anymore. 

 

How come?  Surely there's a market for them.

 

4) Does anyone make them, other than that underpowered little thing they sell at newegg that doesn't even use water?

 

5) What's the story (or even the model number) of the Asus(?) MB that's waterproof?  THAT would be an elegant solution.

 

6) Has anyone tried sinking their entire system in nonconductive liquid, like the Cray-2 did?

 

Getting serious cold is easy.  I even have a little window A/C unit just for cooling my CPU, if I can ever figure out how to make it interface with the PC.  The only insurmountable problem, I think, is condensation.

 

-faye

 

I have deja vu that I may have asked some of these questions before. I'll check.  I think I have the early alzhiemer's.


Edited by FayeKane - 6/26/13 at 7:10am
post #2 of 8
1) Underneath the CPU, there is no way to get air flow in there to prevent condensation. Outside the socket, airflow may prevent condensation forming, but if the block is powerful enough to form frost while the CPU is idling, there's nothing that can be done to prevent that frost from turning to water when the cooler gets shut off. The grease is to prevent condensation from forming on the pins and causing what is known as pin rot. It's corrosion of the metal they use for the pins and comes from freezing and thawing of the pins excessive amounts of time.

2) Moldable art eraser is a lot cleaner than my way of insulating, involving electrical tape, neoprene rubber foam and glue... Don't make fun of me!

3) Never knew CoolerMaster made a TEC cooler...

4) I have the know how, I don't have the means... But that just takes time...

5) Asrock Waterproof Demo

6) A submerged computer would take too much power to cool with TECs, unless the tank were insulated. It may be something to try one day, but Mineral Oil will also become gelatinous after a certain temperature.
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post #3 of 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by FayeKane View Post

Apologies if any of these have been answered.  I did read the stickys.

4) Does anyone make them, other than that underpowered little thing they sell at newegg that doesn't even use water?


-faye

I have deja vu that I may have asked some of these questions before. I'll check.  I think I have the early alzhiemer's.


There was a guy named Mindchill on the forums that had a small business of TEC chillers, but I think he stopped making them. Look around craigslist and ebay, you might get lucky.

Quote:
6) Has anyone tried sinking their entire system in nonconductive liquid, like the Cray-2 did?

Someone made an oversized heatpipe chassis once, if that counts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_X_hgtlJpA

You'd have to use a dielectric transformer fluid like Novec 7000, which is incredibly expensive ($300 a gallon), however it has a freezing point of -120celcius (and it reaches the viscosity of water at about -100celcius) so it's not going to be too thick to pump. It also boils/turns from liquid to gas at 40Celcius, so you'd need to have an effective way to re condense any vapor at the waterblock.

As Puck said, it would take a LOT of power to cool something that big, so you'd likely end up doing a subzero liquid LOOP within the submerged rig so you could focus the ultracool liquid on the CPU. That would get expensive FAST, for minimal benefits.
Quote:
Getting serious cold is easy. I even have a little window A/C unit just for cooling my CPU, if I can ever figure out how to make it interface with the PC. The only insurmountable problem, I think, is condensation.


Brief history of air conditioners, originally they were used as dehumidifiers for large factories where corrosion of metals due to higher humidity was a major problem. It wasn't till about a year or two after they become an industry standard that the inventor realized they could actually effectively lower the temperature of the surrounding environment. Then he began marketing them to movie theaters, and other public businesses that's marketing could greatly benefit from cool rooms.

Why the history lesson you ask? Well, AC units are natural dehumidifiers, so if you're using an AC unit to move air into your PC, the humidity is probably near 0%, so I wouldn't be worried about condensation.
Edited by ZytheEKS - 6/26/13 at 8:42pm
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post #4 of 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by FayeKane View Post

The only insurmountable problem, I think, is condensation.

Insulation is not that difficult once you start. If you have ways to control the temp you don't need to run it below dew for 24/7.

Otherwise you could make a sealed acrylic dry box to house the motherboard, with a small TEC cold sink to collect moisture and drain it out. A small radiator (in the same loop with TEC hot side) can be placed in the dry box to remove extra heat that's sealed inside.smile.gif
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post #5 of 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxrena View Post

Insulation is not that difficult once you start. If you have ways to control the temp you don't need to run it below dew for 24/7.

Otherwise you could make a sealed acrylic dry box to house the motherboard, with a small TEC cold sink to collect moisture and drain it out. A small radiator (in the same loop with TEC hot side) can be placed in the dry box to remove extra heat that's sealed inside.smile.gif

Or she could just continue using that AC unit as air intake... I mean,condensation would be pretty damn hard to achieve with 0% humidity!


P.S. TECs plus ninja swords in your siggy = awesome XD
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post #6 of 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZytheEKS View Post

Or she could just continue using that AC unit as air intake... I mean,condensation would be pretty damn hard to achieve with 0% humidity!

You use 0% only as approximate number, right? smile.gif
In the best scenario AC will reduce the air dew temperature down to the temperature of the AC cold radiator, which is usually about 3-5C. So if TEC goes below that, there will still be condensation risk. It will take some time to see condensation in this case since the air is very dry after AC. But I think it's not safe to run it 24/7.

A close loop AC will be better (AC -> computer -> AC), because lower AC radiator temperature can be reached.

Quote:
P.S. TECs plus ninja swords in your siggy = awesome XD

Thanks! I am glad you like it. cheers.gif
My 4770K is coming this weekend. I can't wait to bench it with my TEC block! I will post the results here.
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post #7 of 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxrena View Post

You use 0% only as approximate number, right? smile.gif
In the best scenario AC will reduce the air dew temperature down to the temperature of the AC cold radiator, which is usually about 3-5C. So if TEC goes below that, there will still be condensation risk. It will take some time to see condensation in this case since the air is very dry after AC. But I think it's not safe to run it 24/7.

A close loop AC will be better (AC -> computer -> AC), because lower AC radiator temperature can be reached.
Thanks! I am glad you like it. cheers.gif
My 4770K is coming this weekend. I can't wait to bench it with my TEC block! I will post the results here.


Yeah, it's just an estimate, however; an art eraser around the TEC will make it safe for 24/7 use ;D
Unless I'm gravely mistaken, I'm pretty sure an ACs evaporator (I.e. the cold radiator, as you called it) can be anywhere from 4celcius to -10 celcius, depending on how efficient the condenser is. My friend's old standalone unit used to freeze up when he left it on at night XD (Temps at night were about 20celcius)
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post #8 of 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZytheEKS View Post

Yeah, it's just an estimate, however; an art eraser around the TEC will make it safe for 24/7 use ;D
Unless I'm gravely mistaken, I'm pretty sure an ACs evaporator (I.e. the cold radiator, as you called it) can be anywhere from 4celcius to -10 celcius, depending on how efficient the condenser is. My friend's old standalone unit used to freeze up when he left it on at night XD (Temps at night were about 20celcius)

Yep, AC can easily below zero. All depends on how much air passes the radiator. That 3-5C number is from my window AC at medium air flow.
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