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post #2721 of 3492
Oh, they're actually different iGPUs? I thought it would just be binned chips. That almost seems like too much effort, but I guess Intel has different iGPUs for every level of chip (e.g. Pentium, i3, i5)
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post #2722 of 3492
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicornΒ View Post

Oh, they're actually different iGPUs?
They are the same iGPU but one has 2 CUs disabled.

Spectre:
512 ALUs
32 TMUs
8 ROPs

Spooky:
384 ALUs (128 ALUs disabled)
24 TMUs (8 TMUs disabled)
8 ROPs

Desktop (45W <-> 95W) = 720 MHz stock
Mobile (15W <-> 35W) = 500 MHz stock

I think with the big change between each SKU is CPU clock rates.
Edited by Seronx - 1/9/14 at 2:52pm
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post #2723 of 3492
That's what I meant by binning, but okee-doke. I think it's 16 ROPs. Every single 7700 card, all the way down to the 7730, has 16 and every single R7 card except Oland-based GPUs have 16 as well.
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post #2724 of 3492
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicornΒ View Post

That's what I meant by binning, but okee-doke. I think it's 16 ROPs. Every single 7700 card, all the way down to the 7730, has 16 and every single R7 card except Oland-based GPUs have 16 as well.
Kaveri and Hawaii share the same style of render back ends.

Kaveri 2 RBEs => 8 cROPs + 32 zROPs
Hawaii 16 RBEs => 64 cROPs +256 zROPs

Hawaii:
http://cdn5.thinkcomputers.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/GCN-2.0-Render-BackEnds.jpg

Kaveri:
http://i.imgur.com/i5s3xTK.jpg

If you check it out there is a typo for Kaveri... Kaveri's 2 RBEs provide the same amount of power as Hawaii's 16 RBEs.

So according to AMD, Kaveri has 64 cROPs + 256 zROPs.
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post #2725 of 3492
WHY? ROPs are the biggest limitations for GPUs. I'm not kidding. Look at benchmarks between two 7850s and a 7970 or two 760s and a 780, Titan, or hell, even a complete GK110 780Ti. The lower-end cards, despite having the same or fewer SPUs and TMUs and a massive increase in latency are actually better because of more ROPs. That's the only explanation I can think of.
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post #2726 of 3492
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlvxΒ View Post

Sort of, that is what I am getting at regarding Infiniband. PCIe 3.0 at under 16GB/s is not nearly enough bandwidth for HSA over dGPU.

Inifiband can offer a lot more bandwidth, enough to make something like that possible.

There was a small presentation where AMD was hinting at a future system where APUs are placed on add-in cards, like GPUs are now, and those add in cards all can use coherent memory. Inifiband was mentioned in it as well. I tried looking for you and I couldn't see it, it wasn't a big presentation at all. I recall just one guy talking about it and mentioning it was far off.

But it did relatively confirm that a sort of platform for AMD which would allow dCPU + dGPU + APU to all access shared memory in a single system.

Whether it actually happens or not is still up in the air. I also talked with a drunk guy from IBM in a litecoin chatroom and he told me some nice things too.

But I think that AMD has every motive to keep absolutely quiet about plans like that, because it would completely cannibalize APU sales. I wouldn't bother waiting for it to come either. It might never come at all and IMO it'll be a while before it actually shows up.

That add-on card was only mentioned in a server context, not for desktop systems.
post #2727 of 3492
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicornΒ View Post

WHY? ROPs are the biggest limitations for GPUs. I'm not kidding. Look at benchmarks between two 7850s and a 7970 or two 760s and a 780, Titan, or hell, even a complete GK110 780Ti. The lower-end cards, despite having the same or fewer SPUs and TMUs and a massive increase in latency are actually better because of more ROPs. That's the only explanation I can think of.
Raster operation units mostly help with higher resolution and post processing something that both isn't the goal of Kaveri wink.gif
It has enough to game at 1080P low and medium settings but the true reason they are pushing lies with their ultra mobile line later on.

They need to do this to later take and advantage in a space where every drop of performance counts.
post #2728 of 3492
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100Β View Post

Raster operation units mostly help with higher resolution and post processing something that both isn't the goal of Kaveri wink.gif
Kaveri is the first AMD APU to support 4K.

Ability to upscale 1080p to 2160p via HEVC(VCE).
Ability to display 2160p content @ 60 Hz.
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post #2729 of 3492
Quote:
Originally Posted by os2wizΒ View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlvxΒ View Post

Sort of, that is what I am getting at regarding Infiniband. PCIe 3.0 at under 16GB/s is not nearly enough bandwidth for HSA over dGPU.

Inifiband can offer a lot more bandwidth, enough to make something like that possible.

There was a small presentation where AMD was hinting at a future system where APUs are placed on add-in cards, like GPUs are now, and those add in cards all can use coherent memory. Inifiband was mentioned in it as well. I tried looking for you and I couldn't see it, it wasn't a big presentation at all. I recall just one guy talking about it and mentioning it was far off.

But it did relatively confirm that a sort of platform for AMD which would allow dCPU + dGPU + APU to all access shared memory in a single system.

Whether it actually happens or not is still up in the air. I also talked with a drunk guy from IBM in a litecoin chatroom and he told me some nice things too.

But I think that AMD has every motive to keep absolutely quiet about plans like that, because it would completely cannibalize APU sales. I wouldn't bother waiting for it to come either. It might never come at all and IMO it'll be a while before it actually shows up.

That add-on card was only mentioned in a server context, not for desktop systems.

Oh yeah, server context, like Opterons. Like the Opteron that is sitting right next to me in a consumer motherboard, with consumer ram, power supply, case, and graphics card? Or the Opterons that were used in workstations.

AMD can't keep Opteron server exclusive anymore, not when they have such horrific market share for x86 servers.

And look at how much not having Opteron on consumer socket is hurting AMD with AM3+. They would at least be selling 8m/16c to some people if there were some sort of server or workstation that used AM3+. But instead they just completely leave consumers who want that multi-threaded performance hanging out to dry.

What good is that? AMD is completely crippling their high end offerings by not giving consumers access to Opterons and server chips. To add insult to injury, AMD is the only company in the world that is capable of a dual CPU platform that can be overclocked at all (via bus overclocking), and the people who actually want it (I know they're extremely few) can't even get it.

It makes absolutely no sense for AMD to divide their product stack like this when they're constantly talking about how they're trying to diversify their products so that they can be interchangeably used as building blocks.

This is what I'm getting at. There's little reason why AMD wouldn't just merge HEDT, workstation, and some server platforms together. It actually would be easier on AMD, it'd be better for customers, and it gives people more choices.

I know without a doubt I'd have a 6m/12c CPU right now and it'd be OCed if it were possible.
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post #2730 of 3492
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlvxΒ View Post

Oh yeah, server context, like Opterons. Like the Opteron that is sitting right next to me in a consumer motherboard, with consumer ram, power supply, case, and graphics card? Or the Opterons that were used in workstations.

AMD can't keep Opteron server exclusive anymore, not when they have such horrific market share for x86 servers.

And look at how much not having Opteron on consumer socket is hurting AMD with AM3+. They would at least be selling 8m/16c to some people if there were some sort of server or workstation that used AM3+. But instead they just completely leave consumers who want that multi-threaded performance hanging out to dry.

What good is that? AMD is completely crippling their high end offerings by not giving consumers access to Opterons and server chips. To add insult to injury, AMD is the only company in the world that is capable of a dual CPU platform that can be overclocked at all (via bus overclocking), and the people who actually want it (I know they're extremely few) can't even get it.

It makes absolutely no sense for AMD to divide their product stack like this when they're constantly talking about how they're trying to diversify their products so that they can be interchangeably used as building blocks.

This is what I'm getting at. There's little reason why AMD wouldn't just merge HEDT, workstation, and some server platforms together. It actually would be easier on AMD, it'd be better for customers, and it gives people more choices.

I know without a doubt I'd have a 6m/12c CPU right now and it'd be OCed if it were possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlvxΒ View Post

Oh yeah, server context, like Opterons. Like the Opteron that is sitting right next to me in a consumer motherboard, with consumer ram, power supply, case, and graphics card? Or the Opterons that were used in workstations.

AMD can't keep Opteron server exclusive anymore, not when they have such horrific market share for x86 servers.

And look at how much not having Opteron on consumer socket is hurting AMD with AM3+. They would at least be selling 8m/16c to some people if there were some sort of server or workstation that used AM3+. But instead they just completely leave consumers who want that multi-threaded performance hanging out to dry.

What good is that? AMD is completely crippling their high end offerings by not giving consumers access to Opterons and server chips. To add insult to injury, AMD is the only company in the world that is capable of a dual CPU platform that can be overclocked at all (via bus overclocking), and the people who actually want it (I know they're extremely few) can't even get it.

It makes absolutely no sense for AMD to divide their product stack like this when they're constantly talking about how they're trying to diversify their products so that they can be interchangeably used as building blocks.

This is what I'm getting at. There's little reason why AMD wouldn't just merge HEDT, workstation, and some server platforms together. It actually would be easier on AMD, it'd be better for customers, and it gives people more choices.

I know without a doubt I'd have a 6m/12c CPU right now and it'd be OCed if it were possible.[/quoteP]

More than a slight exaggeration. The Opterons are on G sockets not on consumer motherboards as you suggested,a. server motherboard
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