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Steamroller? - Page 286

post #2851 of 3492
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

Little core is important for AMD because it is everywhere. Their PC sales champions (netbooks/entry level desktops) are little core based. PS4/XBone are both little core based. The whole attempt to create a succesful x86 tablet cpu is little core based. Their embeded endeavours (7bn$ market as they say) are little core based. Little core is the money maker for AMD atm.

That wasnt the message I was trying to convey.

I'm not trying to say small cores arent important for AMD. They are.

I'm saying with their current lithography disadvantage, it'll be rightfully hard for AMD to develop a small core that can compete with Intel in the same use case and power envelope (in a little core, power is everything.)

Hell, even today; CPU-wise, a ~4W TDP Z3770 Silvermont-based Atom is equivalent to a Jaguar-based A4-5000... Whose TDP is ~15W. Yes, there are GPU differences but they're not that large when you bring it down to the same power envelope.

The only direct answer to Silvermont that AMD has is the A4-12x0 CPUs. Whose CPU power cannot even try to rival Silvermont. It's a tough situation and whose GPU can't really play many games besides the basic ones which Silvermont can do as well.
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post #2852 of 3492
I don't see how lithography is relevant,really. Same disadvantage in comparison to intel applies to big core, as well.
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post #2853 of 3492
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

I don't see how lithography is relevant,really. Same disadvantage in comparison to intel applies to big core, as well.

In big core, the problem isn't quite as accentuated. No one really cares how much battery life their desktop gets (wait, what?), but they sure as hell do care how much their Windows 8 Tablet gets.

Lithography is entirely relevant.

-22nm is a smaller gate gap than 28nm; naturally requiring less voltage and less propagation time.
-FinFET innately has better control characteristics than planar, allowing for the gate to cover more surface area around the gate gap allowing for not only less voltage to be applied to achieve similar/same control as planar setups, but even better grounding and therefore less leakage.
- Bulk is naturally cooler than SOI; despite the power consumption woes of cross-channel leakage that bulk brings innately (as little as this is; it adds up in the grand scheme of things.)

Sure, maybe in HTPCs and desktops, it doesnt matter. In tabs and small notebooks? It's a world of difference. Entirely relevant. If it were irrelevant, do you think TSMC would be busting their balls getting 20nm and 14nm ready? No.
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post #2854 of 3492
Tiger direct listing Kaveri right now. $179.99 for the 7850k.

Available to buy.
post #2855 of 3492
Ive woke, got ready for work, its the 14th wheres the reviews???
post #2856 of 3492
/\ Same mad.gif /\
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post #2857 of 3492
Quote:
Originally Posted by elemein View Post

In big core, the problem isn't quite as accentuated. No one really cares how much battery life their desktop gets (wait, what?), but they sure as hell do care how much their Windows 8 Tablet gets.

Lithography is entirely relevant.

-22nm is a smaller gate gap than 28nm; naturally requiring less voltage and less propagation time.
-FinFET innately has better control characteristics than planar, allowing for the gate to cover more surface area around the gate gap allowing for not only less voltage to be applied to achieve similar/same control as planar setups, but even better grounding and therefore less leakage.
- Bulk is naturally cooler than SOI; despite the power consumption woes of cross-channel leakage that bulk brings innately (as little as this is; it adds up in the grand scheme of things.)

Sure, maybe in HTPCs and desktops, it doesnt matter. In tabs and small notebooks? It's a world of difference. Entirely relevant. If it were irrelevant, do you think TSMC would be busting their balls getting 20nm and 14nm ready? No.

On desktop performance matters alot and lithography deficit costs performance (since the lower you go the more transistors you can put on a certain die) and power consumption (again tide to lithography) is very essential on HPC/Servers. Not to mention that Silvermont prowess is ridiculously exaggerated-it essentially is a failed lineup with minimal design wins (AMD isn't doing any better here ofc) - z3770 has an SDP of 4.5,not TDP to my knowledge btw.
I still fail to understand why the challenges AMD faces on little core area because of lithography are relevant to the topic ,whether they can go on making big core APU products after excavator without opteron/FX line.
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post #2858 of 3492
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisB17 View Post

/\ Same mad.gif /\
I'm now on my lunch and still no reviews, it must be like a 9am usa time nda then? Ah well I'l wait until tonight frown.gif
post #2859 of 3492
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

On desktop performance matters alot and lithography deficit costs performance (since the lower you go the more transistors you can put on a certain die) and power consumption (again tide to lithography) is very essential on HPC/Servers. Not to mention that Silvermont prowess is ridiculously exaggerated-it essentially is a failed lineup with minimal design wins (AMD isn't doing any better here ofc) - z3770 has an SDP of 4.5,not TDP to my knowledge btw.
I still fail to understand why the challenges AMD faces on little core area because of lithography are relevant to the topic ,whether they can go on making big core APU products after excavator without opteron/FX line.

Power. It has nothing to do with size. Power consumption is EVERYTHING with little cores. Lithography makes a night and day difference with power consumption. It is entirely relevant. That is all.
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post #2860 of 3492
recommend me an air cooler for kaveri
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