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Steamroller? - Page 317

post #3161 of 3492
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultracarpet View Post

Just take out the L3 and replace it with 2 more modules or an IGPU... It's that easy right!!!?

...making processors is so easy, it's like building legos. biggrin.gif
With AMD's module way of designing it will look like that yeah. But those blocks need internally a lot of work and position does matter.
post #3162 of 3492
positioning for HSA is particularly very specific to layout, you need a very strong memory interconnect to give every unit multi-directional and balanced access to the memory controller, this is possibly a partial reason why the cores in the 7K APUs were a disappointment as they had to be crammed in such a way for it to all work ideally...

does the L3 get used by the GPU units too? that's ultimately where it would have a massive use as you store a buffer there that you then tell the GPU to process said buffer, instead of doing a copy-back to RAM to have it loaded to GPU cache, back again to RAM, then into CPU cache again. this is why the XBOne has the ESRAM as it allows a super-high-speed global cache for buffers and the sort.
   
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post #3163 of 3492
I actually do believe EX will get a big boost in ST performance that will lead to more competitive desktop processors but those are an afterthought. AMD is now between a rock and a hard place. With intel enjoying such a big process lead I just can't see how they can deliver something to improve their server and laptop market share in any meaningful way. If AMD executes and Carrizo is here in 11 months we will get nice dual and quad cores with pretty good iGPU but that is a very limited product range. Efficient or not, at this point it doesn't matter how good APUs are for laptops, the market only buys intel. They bought them 2-3 years ago when they had abysmal graphics, they clearly won't stop now. And If they can't deliver something convincing for big server then there won't be any high end desktop product either.
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post #3164 of 3492
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

I actually do believe EX will get a big boost in ST performance that will lead to more competitive desktop processors but those are an afterthought. AMD is now between a rock and a hard place. With intel enjoying such a big process lead I just can't see how they can deliver something to improve their server and laptop market share in any meaningful way. If AMD executes and Carrizo is here in 11 months we will get nice dual and quad cores with pretty good iGPU but that is a very limited product range. Efficient or not, at this point it doesn't matter how good APUs are for laptops, the market only buys intel. They bought them 2-3 years ago when they had abysmal graphics, they clearly won't stop now. And If they can't deliver something convincing for big server then there won't be any high end desktop product either.
But then you have to consider price, being the price OEMs pay for the parts. The APU saves a lot on this front and adds to the profit margin of the OEMs.
post #3165 of 3492
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

I actually do believe EX will get a big boost in ST performance that will lead to more competitive desktop processors but those are an afterthought. AMD is now between a rock and a hard place. With intel enjoying such a big process lead I just can't see how they can deliver something to improve their server and laptop market share in any meaningful way. If AMD executes and Carrizo is here in 11 months we will get nice dual and quad cores with pretty good iGPU but that is a very limited product range. Efficient or not, at this point it doesn't matter how good APUs are for laptops, the market only buys intel. They bought them 2-3 years ago when they had abysmal graphics, they clearly won't stop now. And If they can't deliver something convincing for big server then there won't be any high end desktop product either.

AMD should be scaling Jaguar up a little bit more for laptops. I really am happy with my A4 5000, but I think the quad core 1.5ghz Jaguar is the slowest Jaguar I would go with. If they could get it off bulk and onto something like 20nm SOI they'd have a real winner. I've been playing around with my A4-5000 and my friends Core i7 M Sandy Bridge. The best I can do with Jaguar compiler tricks is getting A4-5000 at 1.5ghz to be a little less than half the speed of i7 mobile which is averaging 2.55ghz with turbo.

So, realistically I could see 8 core Jaguar trading blows with a 4 core, hyperthreaded SB chip at around 3ghz if AMD could get the frequency up close to 2ghz. But the biggest elephant in the room about the whole thing is that A4-5000 is a 15w part and the i7 is a 45w part. So it's not even twice as fast yet the TDP is three times as high, and Intel has a habit of lying about TDP, so it might be even higher .

Which is why I'm not excited about AMD replacing cat cores with ARM, and I think it would be a big mistake. AMD has a lot of potential with these little chips, and if they could keep scaling them up in clock speed and core count, they'd have a really good chip on their hands.

But as far as mobile goes, I'm really surprised by how deceptive Intel marketing is with clock speed for mobile chips. The CPU model my friend has states a 2ghz stock frequency. I rendered on it for 7 minutes at a time 3 times in a row with barely a break between renders and it barely dropped below 2.4ghz and was mostly at 2.6 or 2.5ghz, with spurts to 2.7ghz.

They really pulled a fast one over everyone, comparing 2ghz Core 2 Duo that is actually 2ghz with 2ghz Sandy Bridge which is actually anywhere from 2.9ghz to 2.4ghz and then going "wow SB is only a 2ghz part but look at how much faster it is per clock!"
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post #3166 of 3492
Quote:
So it's not even twice as fast yet the TDP is three times as high, and Intel has a habit of lying about TDP, so it might be even higher

45w isn't really estimated power, it's effectively the long-term power limit for the chip (cpu and igpu) as far as i understand right now
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post #3167 of 3492
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

I actually do believe EX will get a big boost in ST performance that will lead to more competitive desktop processors but those are an afterthought. AMD is now between a rock and a hard place. With intel enjoying such a big process lead I just can't see how they can deliver something to improve their server and laptop market share in any meaningful way. If AMD executes and Carrizo is here in 11 months we will get nice dual and quad cores with pretty good iGPU but that is a very limited product range. Efficient or not, at this point it doesn't matter how good APUs are for laptops, the market only buys intel. They bought them 2-3 years ago when they had abysmal graphics, they clearly won't stop now. And If they can't deliver something convincing for big server then there won't be any high end desktop product either.

We already can be certain that there won't be any AMD presence in the high-end anytime soon, not even with Excavator. The roadmaps already show that AMD is solely committed to APU's, and there are no server parts using SR or EX that have more than two modules. Inb4 anyone suggests multi-socket platforms, because Berlin and Toronto are only for 1P systems, and the APU's don't have any HyperTransport or similar tech in them to allow for multi-socket communication without abysmal latency. Plus the purpose of HSA is to eliminate latency and let the CPU communicate with the GPU's much faster than before, which a multi-socket approach would render totally moot.

It's not secret that Intel abused their spending power to "coerce" OEM's to not sell AMD-powered products, and to basically push the hell out of Intel products in order to boost their market share, even when AMD had the superior products. Granted, that was ages ago now, but that legacy was never left behind. What AMD needs to do is keep doing what they're doing right now -- focusing on HSA and innovation rather than trying to follow Intel. They need to really get on their marketing and increase brand awareness. The vast majority of average consumers don't even know who AMD are, let alone the fact that they exist.
post #3168 of 3492
And with that being said I feel its safe to upgrade my 8150 to an 8350 the next time a sale happens. I can justify <100 dollars on a 20% performance increase. Plus my 8150 caps out around 4.4ghz for OC.
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post #3169 of 3492
Quote:
Originally Posted by heroxoot View Post

And with that being said I feel its safe to upgrade my 8150 to an 8350 the next time a sale happens. I can justify <100 dollars on a 20% performance increase. Plus my 8150 caps out around 4.4ghz for OC.
Certainly. Vishera overclocks to 4.5 with very little problem. It usually takes some work to go higher, but most of them will make it to 4.8 with good cooling and some extra voltage. A good water loop gets a lot of them to 5.0. Even at the stock 4.0, it should keep pace with, and often beat, your Bulldozer at 4.4. Vishera is a nice improvement over the original FX chips, very comparable to the improvement from Phenom I to Phenom II.
     
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post #3170 of 3492
I have mine at 22x for now with 1.3875v. Probably not Prime or IBT stable, but I never crash. And yet I do video rendering... anyone want to guess the other reason why I believe stress testing is pointless?
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