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Steamroller? - Page 331

post #3301 of 3492
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

The leaked die shot from one year ago is most likely Excavator - and EX will be upgraded SR, kinda obvious, don't you think? I simply do not believe AMD went into such trouble to disable so much logic within the core itself - this isn't lasering a few CUs off a GPU, it would require them to mess with the internals and I wouldn't be surprised if this was impossible due to costs involved. As for SR, it was poised to offer "greater parallelism" and this is exactly what it did.

http://uk.hardware.info/reviews/5156/43/amd-a10-7850k-kaveri-review-amds-new-apu-steamroller-vs-piledriver

It usually heavily beats its PD predecessors clock for clock (but it does have a few peculiar regressions here and there, probably FPU related). It also is more efficient. With Kaveri the performance is already there, let's not go searching for red herrings. The shortcomings and peculiarities are elsewhere. For such an important product for AMD,this core can only be found in two desktop SKUs, the 7850k and the 7700k.No A8 7600, no 1 or 3 module versions, no mobile chips, no big opterons, no FX. We have argued in this very thread before about the possibility of AMD abandoning big servers and enthusiast desktops but that doesn't explain why SR is absent from the most important market of them all, laptops. Llano, Trinity and Richland all targeted laptops first and foremost.
I don't know what's wrong, it could be that the process used isn't really appropriate and AMD dished kaveri out just to help HSA kick off, or yields are low, or that it is just a stopgap till excavator. People speculate it might be SMT capable and I really feel that if AMD wants to have a future in big core, they need to go that way as well. Else intel will forever be ahead in MT performance for a given die size.

http://semiaccurate.com/forums/showpost.php?p=184500&postcount=927
The single Bulldozer decoder somehow couldn't handle 2 threads running
at 100% and for benchmarks we see at most a 50% performance increase
when the "second core" becomes active. So it doesn't work good enough
for CMT (but it's more than OK for dual threaded SMT)

Now why not double up the decoder and use the capability to decode
2 threads for SMT instead?

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?s=f82da35b89918c7cb57f5570c6e03451&p=1740893&postcount=7

The odd thing from a single-threaded perspective is that the scheduler logic outside of the tables is either much denser or not much larger. It's also not really necessary to have double the retirement tracking or rename tables for a core whose decoder is still 4-wide--if the core is single-threaded.
Perhaps it isn't.

I do give seronx a little credit for what he's saying. There is something massively amiss with Steamroller.

As you said, the release is odd. Why do desktop first? There are a lot of people thinking desktop is dying and AMD is giving up on it, yet they release their new architecture only for desktop? It doesn't make sense by that alone. And then you have the fact that Kaveri actually performs better at low clock speeds in relation to power consumption, yet we're not seeing low power consumption Kaveri chips.

Something is definitely going on with Steamroller that we're not being told about. I couple it with the fact that there's a SteamrollerA, which is presumed unreleased, and SteamrollerB, which is what we have. There's a ton of mysteries with this chip and architecture. I've heard things personally from someone who works at IBM that 22nm SOI between IBM and AMD was a disaster that shouldn't be talked about (he was drunk and I was taking advantage of him, lol) and that there's were (at the time, this was several months ago, around the end of 2013) a lot of things in development that they were trying to get working (IBM, AMD, etc).

But the fact that we saw Kaveri ramrodded onto 28nm bulk, desktop chips released first, this mystery die gets leaked with no information about it, lots of odd talk from very vague unofficial sources (I had one and 8350rocks @ tom's seems to have one too), etc just seems way too odd to me. It's sort of like AMD released Steamroller just to say they released Steamroller. Kind of like how they released FX 9000 series just to say they released another line of chips on AM3+.

The one thing I take away from this though is that just because there is no FX style Steamroller doesn't mean that there's never going to be another FX style CPU from AMD. There's no mobile Kaveri right now either, and that doesn't mean AMD is done releasing mobile chips. Mobile Kaveri is coming.
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post #3302 of 3492
Quote:
It's sort of like AMD released Steamroller just to say they released Steamroller. Kind of like how they released FX 9000 series just to say they released another line of chips on AM3+.

I'd say they released Kaveri so the software devs can start toying with it and get working on some HSA apps. Roy Taylor said the FX-9000 series was his idea and that he'd pushed for them to release it. I guess the idea was to release a beast gaming CPU that wouldn't need to be overclocked, basically some better-binned chips, hence Centurion.
Quote:
The one thing I take away from this though is that just because there is no FX style Steamroller doesn't mean that there's never going to be another FX style CPU from AMD.

Who knows. FX is just a brand name. Remember that OEM-only Athlon/APU that got branded as an FX recently? It was pretty much just an unlocked Richland APU for OEM's, nothing special about it. I don't really see AMD releasing anymore CPU-only parts besides die-harvested Athlons and such, but that's just me (for the consumer channel, anyway.) If they do go and release another CPU part, I think it would be on a new LGA-style socket, but this would be either late 2015 or c. 2016 at the earliest.
post #3303 of 3492
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaroonGTX View Post

I'd say they released Kaveri so the software devs can start toying with it and get working on some HSA apps. Roy Taylor said the FX-9000 series was his idea and that he'd pushed for them to release it. I guess the idea was to release a beast gaming CPU that wouldn't need to be overclocked, basically some better-binned chips, hence Centurion.
Who knows. FX is just a brand name. Remember that OEM-only Athlon/APU that got branded as an FX recently? It was pretty much just an unlocked Richland APU for OEM's, nothing special about it. I don't really see AMD releasing anymore CPU-only parts besides die-harvested Athlons and such, but that's just me (for the consumer channel, anyway.) If they do go and release another CPU part, I think it would be on a new LGA-style socket, but this would be either late 2015 or c. 2016 at the earliest.

You misread him. By FX I do not believe SVDLX means a cpu only part. He is talking about a 6 or 8 core APU that gives the type of multi-core performance we see with the FX 8300 or 9000 series.
post #3304 of 3492
Ah, that would be nice indeed. They may very well turn the FX series into APU's as well. Would be nice competitors to the i7's at that point.
post #3305 of 3492
I would strongly suspect any future FX chips would be APU's. Since HSA is such a huge part of AMD's long-term strategy, and HSA requires the presence of an on-board GPU, it would make sense that any new FX chips would have one. They would probably be cream-of-the-crop chips off the very top of the A-series production lines, clocked higher than regular A-series APU's.
     
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post #3306 of 3492
Indeed, when I say "FX style CPU", I'm basically just asking for a 3m/6c or better CPU. I don't care if it's an APU or not, just something that does very well in traditional CPU workloads. If I had 5m/10c CPU with a bunch of GCN cores on it I wouldn't care. I would definitely enjoy the HSA acceleration when it came, but I don't want to sit around and wait for software to get HSA features if it's something I actually need to use.

Basically, "FX style CPU" is me saying something that's better than FX 9590 in the CPU department, regardless of if it's a CPU or an APU. I do feel like we'll see HSA come to multiple discrete chips somewhere down the line. Whether that's in 2014 or in 2024 I have no idea. But I think that eventually it's going to be a requirement, and I do feel it's going to happen sooner rather than later. Intel and Nvidia's actions make me feel like AMD won't sit around and do nothing in regards to fast buses between different dies.
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post #3307 of 3492
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdlvx View Post

I'm basically just asking for a 3m/6c or better CPU. I don't care if it's an APU or not, just something that does very well in traditional CPU workloads. If I had 5m/10c CPU with a bunch of GCN cores on it I wouldn't care. I would definitely enjoy the HSA acceleration when it came, but I don't want to sit around and wait for software to get HSA features if it's something I actually need to use.

This! I would be okay with AMD dropping the FX line entirely and going APU-only, if they would just release a 3m/6c variant to choose from.
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post #3308 of 3492
Kaveri 1.0D (GF28SHP) -> January 2014
Kaveri 1.0M/E (GF28SHP) -> May 2014
Kaveri 2.0D (GF28SHP) -> July 2014
Kaveri 2.0M/E (GF28SHP) -> November 2014
CarrizoD (GF14FD or GF14XM/LPE) -> July 2015
CarrzioM/E (GF14FD or GF14XM/LPE) -> November 2015

^-- something like this is my expectation. (If there is a Carrizo 1.0 and Carrizo 2.0, it would be separated between GF20LPM and GF14(xx))

40h-4Fh (GF28SHP) -> October 2014
or
40h-4Fh (GF14FD) -> March 2015.

^-- for the 16-core FX/Opteron.
Edited by Seronx - 4/28/14 at 9:26am
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post #3309 of 3492
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seronx View Post

Kaveri 1.0D (GF28SHP) -> January 2014
Kaveri 1.0M/E (GF28SHP) -> May 2014
Kaveri 2.0D (GF28SHP) -> July 2014
Kaveri 2.0M/E (GF28SHP) -> November 2014
CarrizoD (GF14FD or GF14XM/LPE) -> July 2015
CarrzioM/E (GF14FD or GF14XM/LPE) -> November 2015

^-- something like this is my expectation. (If there is a Carrizo 1.0 and Carrizo 2.0, it would be separated between GF20LPM and GF14(xx))

40h-4Fh (GF28SHP) -> October 2014
or
40h-4Fh (GF14FD) -> March 2015.

^-- for the 16-core FX/Opteron.
Depending on how much better Kaveri 2 would be people are going to complain if this is the case.

I think Carrizo will be either on GF20LPM but I'm quite sure it won't be on GF14XM since that is a ultra mobile focused node which would have low yield on "large" chips.
Then there is a small chance of it being on 28 with HDL but seeing how Steamroller already is like that I think that won't be the case.
post #3310 of 3492
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 View Post

Depending on how much better Kaveri 2 would be people are going to complain if this is the case.
~2x increase in static performance and up to ~1.5x increase in Perf/Watt is my generalized expectation.

A8-7600 (45W):
4 * 8 * 3.1 => 99.2 GFlops
384 * 2 * 0.72 => 552.96 GFlops

A8-7600v2 or A8-8600 (45W):
4 * 16 * 1.8 => 115.2 GFlops
768 * 2 * 0.5 => 768 GFlops
^-min numbers-^
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 View Post

I think Carrizo will be either on GF20LPM but I'm quite sure it won't be on GF14XM since that is a ultra mobile focused node which would have low yield on "large" chips.
All nodes in production after 28nm SHP are all G nodes. Which means that all of them are high performance focused nodes. No node has high yields for big chips. Anything bigger than 100 mm² you have an exponential rise in defects.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 View Post

Then there is a small chance of it being on 28 with HDL but seeing how Steamroller already is like that I think that won't be the case.
GF28SHP is using HDL, as you can tell in comparison to IBM's 22nm PDSOI.

IBM's 22nm PDSOI -> 15 metal layers, High Speed track
AMD's 28nm SHP -> 12 metal layers, High Density track
Edited by Seronx - 4/28/14 at 9:49am
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