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Help needed in choosing Proc / MB / Ram for a gaming system

post #1 of 3
Thread Starter 
Hello guys,

Needless to say i am trying to build a new system and need some help.
The system will be used for gaming mostly. (this system WILL BE OCd)
I have a few issues i need to clear up before placing my part order.

1) Haswell i7 4770k vs Ivy Bridge i7 3770k.
I know... i know there are tons of threads with this question, please allow me to ask it again.

-I have seen the benchmarks ... little to no difference from what i can gather, the 4-7% performance difference dose not impress me, is my info correct ?

-For overclocking is ivy better or not ?
I see tons of opinions .. some say this some say that.... witch is it ? ... and is it a big gap between the 2 overclocking-wise ?
I am not a pro OC-er but i would like to give it a go, from what i have read here it seems that you don't really shorten the lifespan of the proc as long as you keep it cool and don't turn up the voltage to much, is this info true ?
Now i know every chip is different but could you give me a... lets say a "safe set" of OC variables ?
I will keep this config for at least 3 years so i would very much like not to fry it.

-At the end of the day witch is better for gaming ?
I will have in this system a good graphics card, witch i haven't decided yet.

-This moronic (imo) "haswell certification"
My PSU is a Seasonic M12 SS 700, yes its a older model but it runs so good i don't see why i should change it. Do i need to change it if i go for a haswell ? Do you consider this PSU obsolete and should i change it anyway ?
From what info i gathered i understand that non certified PSUs will work just fine if you turn off the C7 low power bla bla bla. What i did not manage to find out is What do i lose if i have to turn off the C7 low power bla bla bla ? If its just the case of consuming a little more power and dose not affect the performance and stability of my system please let me know.

-Tampering with the CPU.
I have seen some info witch states that the high temps of the ivy/haswell CPU is due to low quality thermal paste between the CPU and the metal shield. There are some that suggest removing the shield and replacing the thermal paste with a better one...this is said to give a very good temp decrease. Is this procedure advisable and dose it actually give impressive results ?

-My thermal solution of the proc is the Noctua D14. Is my choice appropriate ? if not could you recommend something else ?

2) Motherboard Recommendation.
Now i have selected a few of these, i would very much appreciate your thoughts on them as-well as a recommendation or 2. I want to OC and i want a good set of features.

-Ivy
Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UP4 TH
ASRock Z77 OC Formula
Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD5H-WB
Asus SABERTOOTH Z77

-haswell
Gigabyte GA-Z87X-OC
Gigabyte G1.Sniper M5
Gigabyte GA-Z87X-UD5H
Asus Z87-PRO
ASRock Z87 Extreme6
Asus SABERTOOTH Z87
MSI Z87-GD65 GAMING

3) Ram Recommendation.

-XMP or no XMP ? would it be ideal for the memory to be designed to work at its best parameters with XMP or should i just go for something that support natively what i want / need ? (ddr3 1600 mhz or above with cl9 at max, 1.5 to 1.65)
-Will it matter if i get ECC or Non-ECC memory ? As i understand it ECC memory is a must have for servers and workstations and such, how will this choice affect a gaming pc ?

-Now... because and if i am going to use the Noctua D14 i am going to need low profile ram.
I found such ram at Corsair and Kingston, both at 1600 Cl9 with 1.5v.
As i'm sure you know there are many versions, especially for kingston.
You have your Corsair Vengeance LP witch come in blue and grey/black, or Corsair XMS 3. On the other side you have your kingston hyperx blue/black/red , genesis, anniversary.
Now... what i do not understand even after browsing the manufacturers websites.
Witch are better ? the blue ones ? the red ones ? the black ones ? witch ??? This really gave me a headache as i can see no real difference between most of them as spec-wise they seem to be exactly the same. I hope you guys will help me clear up this issue.

Final Note : Where i live the price for haswell / ivy PROCs and MBs is exactly the same, so there is no price consideration

Thank You for taking the time to read all or some of this, i honestly appreciate the help.


P.S.
My old core 2 duo E6850 is running at 73 degrees in full load and idles at 48 degrees.... how bad is it ? can i just leave it like this or should i get a better cooling solution asap (its running on the stock cooler witch i know is not great) ?
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel® CoreTM i5-4670K GA-Z87X-UD5H Asus GTX 560 Corsair Vengeance Pro 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 PRO 128 Western Digital 1TB Noctua NH-D14 Windows 7 Ultimate 64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
LCD Philips 221V2AB Logitech G15 Seasonic M12 700W Cooler Master HAF XM 
MouseMouse PadAudioOther
Logitech G600 G.L.I.D.E. 9 X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Pro Series Logitech G13 
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel® CoreTM i5-4670K GA-Z87X-UD5H Asus GTX 560 Corsair Vengeance Pro 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
Samsung 840 PRO 128 Western Digital 1TB Noctua NH-D14 Windows 7 Ultimate 64 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
LCD Philips 221V2AB Logitech G15 Seasonic M12 700W Cooler Master HAF XM 
MouseMouse PadAudioOther
Logitech G600 G.L.I.D.E. 9 X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Pro Series Logitech G13 
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post #2 of 3
if purely for gaming you must go down a little bit in i5 category...i7 is mostly for video editing and rendering jobs.... if your purpose is mostly for gaming....i5 is the way to go.....

for haswell and ivy...... ivy is good on previous reviews right only the disadvantage for having a high temperature when your goin to OC it..... and now for haswell it still having the same issue about the temps.... but haswell power consumption lesser and makes you pay less in your monthly power bills.... thats the improvement ive seen and i think 10% difference in performance but the cost is around 30-40% difference.... so it simply goes with the ivy if your goin to base the cost...but sad to say the 1155 platform is already a dead platform,(means no more incoming upgrade on procs)...

for ivy i choose the Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UP4 TH and if dont need the thunderbolt i will choose Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD5H

for Haswell i will choose Gigabyte GA-Z87X-OC (im not a fan man but i also read about the reviews and also the price difference about this) smile.gif
xd9denz
(18 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 4770 @3.4Ghz Hewlett-Packard HP EliteDesk 800 G1 TWR Nvidia Quadro K600 Kingston 4x4GB @1600 MHz 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Seagate Barracuda 500GB Windows 7 Professional x64 HP V24a1 Full HD Monitor HP Generic 
PowerMouse
500W LiteOn PSU HP Generic 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
AMD A8-6410 AMD Radeon R7 M260 6GB @1600 Mhz 1TB HGST Drive(WD Company) 
Optical DriveOSMonitorAudio
Built-in Windows 8.1 15.6" Screen Built-in(Beats Audio with 2 speakers) 
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xd9denz
(18 items)
 
   
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core i7 4770 @3.4Ghz Hewlett-Packard HP EliteDesk 800 G1 TWR Nvidia Quadro K600 Kingston 4x4GB @1600 MHz 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
Seagate Barracuda 500GB Windows 7 Professional x64 HP V24a1 Full HD Monitor HP Generic 
PowerMouse
500W LiteOn PSU HP Generic 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
AMD A8-6410 AMD Radeon R7 M260 6GB @1600 Mhz 1TB HGST Drive(WD Company) 
Optical DriveOSMonitorAudio
Built-in Windows 8.1 15.6" Screen Built-in(Beats Audio with 2 speakers) 
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post #3 of 3
Greetings!

For gaming, drop the i7. Go for an i5. Hyperthreading is of no use for the time being and near future.

1) That depends more or less on you; however I'd pick Haswell over Ivy because of the socket being introduced and still having a long life ahead of it and because of the PCI lanes (in case you run a multi-GPU solution); if you run a single GPU and don't plan to upgrade any further (on the same chipset anyway) - meh, really. By the timeline you established, there will most likely be a new socket until then.
Overclock is the same - it all rounds up to scoring a better performing chip. People are learning how to OC their Haswells and already yield some awesome results!
Chip degradation occurs slowly, and at high voltages. Such voltages are not advised on air cooling anyway, so you'll be fine.
The "safe set" of values you can find in the Haswell OCing guides on the forum; but tinkering is individual.

Your PSU should be fine; but someone experienced with Has better describe the C7 which drastically reduces current running through the CPU in idle states. (that's what you gain if you disable it - more power bill, albeit nominal)
De-lidding is the process of replacing the TIM. It will void your warranty, and therefore is not advisable. However if you are set on it, I'd recommend the hammer and vice method, described here

So, the tl;dr version of 1) is - if single-GPU an 3+ years of no upgrade, it doesn't matter. Mutliple GPUs and I'd go Haswell. Delidding will void warranty but the risk is worth it if you are pushing the chip high. The better alternative to your cooler is water.

2) For the motherboards, I can give no particular advice besides that I'm quite happy with my Z77 Sabertooth. And you are generally looking for a motherboard with nice power phase design (8+4+*) at least.

3) Regarding the RAM - ECC memory is error-correcting. You are not handling any data that does not tolerate any faults. And it will not be supported by your motherboard in 99% of the consumer desktop grade boards. You can also overclock your RAM and I'd advise trying to. A notch up in voltage might net some pretty nice latency tightening. However, increased frequency also adds up for performance, hence my suggestion would be tightening timings as much as you can with 1.65V through the chips and then raising the frequency (without loosening timings back) as up as they go.

Your E6850 is specced for <75oC; 72 IIRC. You might want to clean it up. And if you get a dirt cheap cooler that performs good, feel free to slap it in.
Edited by fragamemnon - 7/4/13 at 12:49am
MEGATRON
(24 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i5-3570K @ 4.8/1.32V | Hammer&Vice'd ASUS Sabertooth Z77 PowerColor R9 290 PowerColor R9 290 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung MV-3V4G3D/US 4x4GB kit @ 2200MHz 9-10-1... 2x Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB RAID 0 Samsung 840 Evo 250GB 2xAquacomputer Kryographics Hawaii Nickel/Acrylic 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
XSPC Rasa Swiftech MCP-655 Vario Aquacomputer Aqualis 450mm w/ nano & Pump top 2x XSPC RX360; 1x XSPC RS360; 1x Alphacool ST 1... 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
EK-Vardar F4-120 8.1 x64; Ubuntu 14.10 Dell U2412M Dell U2412M 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Dell U2312H BenQ XL2411Z KBC Poker II MX Clears SeaSonic SS-850AM 
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Thermaltake Core X9 Mionix AVIOR 7000 Razer Goliathus Aune T1 -> Yamaha A-720 -> Sennheiser HD650 | S... 
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MEGATRON
(24 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core i5-3570K @ 4.8/1.32V | Hammer&Vice'd ASUS Sabertooth Z77 PowerColor R9 290 PowerColor R9 290 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung MV-3V4G3D/US 4x4GB kit @ 2200MHz 9-10-1... 2x Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB RAID 0 Samsung 840 Evo 250GB 2xAquacomputer Kryographics Hawaii Nickel/Acrylic 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
XSPC Rasa Swiftech MCP-655 Vario Aquacomputer Aqualis 450mm w/ nano & Pump top 2x XSPC RX360; 1x XSPC RS360; 1x Alphacool ST 1... 
CoolingOSMonitorMonitor
EK-Vardar F4-120 8.1 x64; Ubuntu 14.10 Dell U2412M Dell U2412M 
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
Dell U2312H BenQ XL2411Z KBC Poker II MX Clears SeaSonic SS-850AM 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Thermaltake Core X9 Mionix AVIOR 7000 Razer Goliathus Aune T1 -> Yamaha A-720 -> Sennheiser HD650 | S... 
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