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[ ET ] Seeing double: TSMC adopts new lithography technique to push Moore’s law to 20nm - Page 2

post #11 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 View Post

With TSMC moving in rapid pase due to it being the only capable manufacturer besides intel (globalfoundries is an arabic joke) they will be head to head 2-3 years from now.
At least that is what I think and hope.

I highly doubt this will happen. Intel worked on their 22nm finfet process for 8 years while investing billions into it, this kind of thing doesn't happen overnight. The investment for double pattern costs billions upon billions of dollars, although that is a one time charge. Intel has already invested in the R+D for 14nm and is already starting to tape products out on it for release next year (Broadwell mobile), while TSMC is just now struggling with 20nm. TSMC's 20nm isn't even comparable to intel's 22nm with FinFet, and TSMC has not even invested into double patterning. TSMC is just now attempting to get good yields with 20nm and they don't have double patterning. Intel has all that and more, finfet, double patterning, and they're taping products out on 14nm for release next year. They've already quantum leaped TSMC.

Here's how it works in the silicon industry - the more money you have, the greater the lead you have, and new processes take 5-6 years to be realized. To earn money, you need money, and intel invested all of their R+D into finfet and double patterning years ago. TSMC is just now *thinking* about it. Now this obviously won't affect TSMCs business as intel is generally very bullish about enabling competitors and sharing their FAB capacities. TSMC will still get a ton of business from Apple, Qualcomm, nvidia, etc, so this won't affect them in the short term. But make no mistake, I can't see TSMC ever catching up to intel in the next few years.
Edited by xoleras - 7/5/13 at 10:08am
post #12 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by t00sl0w View Post

isnt samsung working on 20nm also?
so we will have, three big fabs producing silicon 20nm or under now? intel, TSMC, and samsung...is there another?
do IBM fabs sell anything openly or are they just for R&D?

Samsung's 20nm isn't ready, and when it is - it won't be comparable to intel's 22nm. In other words, intel's 22nm with FinFet and 3d transistors process is superior.

Samsung and TSMC are rumored to be readying 20nm for Q4 this year or next year sometime, but I have a feeling that it won't happen or their yields will be extremely bad. Intel has invested in all of the side technologies such as double patterning many years ago while Samsung/TSMC are still playing catch up.
post #13 of 18
Shouldn't the fact that TSMC has pretty much unlimited resources make up for some of the time.
I mean if you don't wanna go Intel you can only go TSMC for a decent node.
post #14 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 View Post

Shouldn't the fact that TSMC has pretty much unlimited resources make up for some of the time.
I mean if you don't wanna go Intel you can only go TSMC for a decent node.

I believe that category belongs to Intel.
post #15 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Bad Day View Post

I believe that category belongs to Intel.
TSMC is backed by a multitude of companies that won't deal with Intel's absurd pricing for fabs (since they need them for their own and want moaaaaaar money)
Well any company in business to make money would.
post #16 of 18
Intel 14nm is already out
post #17 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 View Post

TSMC is backed by a multitude of companies that won't deal with Intel's absurd pricing for fabs (since they need them for their own and want moaaaaaar money)
Well any company in business to make money would.

Having lots of backers still does not mean you have unlimited resources. Intel makes 60% margins on their CPUs.... no one else comes close to that.

Intel maintains a 12-18 month lead and has a bigger war chest.
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post #18 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by maarten12100 View Post

TSMC is backed by a multitude of companies that won't deal with Intel's absurd pricing for fabs (since they need them for their own and want moaaaaaar money)
Well any company in business to make money would.

I don't think Intel is going to print any chips for anyone other than a few minnow companies that pose absolutely no threat to them.
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