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[Guru3D] AMD FX 9590 'Centurion' Benchmarks surface - Page 17

post #161 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

Ok, does AMD plan to abandon x86, no. Case closed. Your hypothetical dream isn't coming true.

Even if AMD did abandon x86, I'm sure the licensing agreements will allow Intel to continue using x64. Intel suing AMD wouldn't go down pretty for them.

I doubt AMD can just terminate x64 from Intel anyway, since Intel has its OWN implementation. Otherwise, why would Intel originally threaten AMD to terminate their x86 license?
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-intel-x86-cpu,7285.html

Actually both AMD and Intel have learned and taught from each other. AMD copied many 32 bit instructions from Intel, AMD copied the great AVX. Intel copied x64 bit from AMD, Intel copied FMA3. And many more things.....

Lets let them do what they do smile.gif we can't do anything for them unless you are a great programmer/system architect . What we can at least do is understand and distinguish what benchmark is suitable for both CPU and how to come to the conclusion that CPU A is much faster than B. At least this way we can learn and make others learn many things. There are many people in this forum who still just believe that 5GHz will always be better than 4GHz. We should tell them that in a condition where 4 GHz CPU is performing 128 bits per cycle and 5 GHz CPU is performing 64 bits per cycle, 4 GHz is actually faster than 5 GHz.
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post #162 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by sumitlian View Post

Actually both AMD and Intel have learned and taught from each other.
Exactly. I don't get the obsession of people with either when they are both two American companies that have exchanged Engineers dozens of times and are situated a few miles apart from each other.

If you want to see where the technological war is played right now see at TSMC vs Intel, Samsung, IBM's Common Group, etc.
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post #163 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie1337 View Post

What is Intel's implementation? That is an actual question because I see no reason for Intel to extend a licensing deal to AMD if they had their own 64bit extension to the x86 world. I mean I know about Itanium but that was killed a couple of years ago. And what I get from them threatening AMD is more to do with the fact that AMD was so attached to the x86-64 CISC world that Intel was basically trying to strong arm them. The link you gave is focused on Intel threatening AMD for doing out of house fab work; not AMD trying to cut Intel from using x64. Intel knew because it owned x86 it had the position to go after AMD and since AMD was focused on the x86 world at the time they weren't going to say no.

Without access to the licensing agreements or what was discussed behind doors it's hard to assume they just favor Intel or AMD. But, I can't imagine AMD would have agreed to allow Intel use of their property without getting something in return and without a clause allowing either to terminate the deal if they no longer needed each other's property; likely a time based condition though.

Sure it's a hypothetical dream, but that's what a lot of businesses/strategies started out as (though many never lived). Still, if AMD had the ability to end the cross agreement and deny Intel x64 I can't see any reason for them to stick with a tainted market when they could have better results in the ARM or MIPS world. But that's me. I wouldn't stay on a sinking ship of a business when they could save it.

The point of that link was to show that Intel was willing to cancel x86, without fearing losing x64, which you claimed that AMD could take away from Intel.

I linked you here earlier, which should cover your questions about Intel's implementation, which is different than Itanium, and was eventually called Intel 64.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64

You're right, we don't have access to the licensing agreements, it is my opinion that AMD can't just one day decide to take x64 away from Intel, considering there would be no x64 without x86 which Intel licenses to AMD,

You gotta keep in mind that AMD wouldn't exist today if it wasn't for Intel and IBM basically, I'm talking about the history dating back to the 80's, where Intel licensed its processor designs initially to AMD, and later AMD reverse engineered Intel processors.

This has a brief history for reference in case you're not familiar:
http://arstechnica.com/business/2013/04/the-rise-and-fall-of-amd-how-an-underdog-stuck-it-to-intel/
Quote:
AMD began life as a second-source supplier for companies using Intel processors. Companies like IBM didn't want to rely solely on Intel for one of the primary components in their computers, so they licensed AMD to produce versions of processors like the 8088 and 80286. While these CPUs were manufactured by AMD (and, in some cases, AMD was actually able to clock the CPUs higher than their Intel counterparts), almost everything about their designs came from Intel.

Beginning with Intel’s 80386 in 1985, Intel stopped giving AMD access to its designs. AMD had to forge its own way, soon producing 386 and later 486 CPUs that were essentially reverse-engineered versions of Intel’s parts.

Point is they have cross licensing agreements that have gotten both companies this far over the years.

We should probably get back on topic now though. wink.gif
Edited by 2010rig - 7/11/13 at 4:57pm
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post #164 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

The point of that link was to show that Intel was willing to cancel x86, without fearing losing x64, which you claimed that AMD could take away from Intel.

I linked you here earlier, which should cover your questions about Intel's implementation, which is different than Itanium, and was eventually called Intel 64.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64

You're right, we don't have access to the licensing agreements, it is my opinion that AMD can't just one day decide to take x64 away from Intel, considering there would be no x64 without x86 which Intel licenses to AMD,

You gotta keep in mind that AMD wouldn't exist today if it wasn't for Intel and IBM basically, I'm talking about the history dating back to the 80's, where Intel licensed its processor designs initially to AMD, and later AMD reverse engineered Intel processors.

This has a brief history for reference in case you're not familiar:
http://arstechnica.com/business/2013/04/the-rise-and-fall-of-amd-how-an-underdog-stuck-it-to-intel/
Point is they have cross licensing agreements that have gotten both companies this far over the years.

We should probably get back on topic now though. wink.gif

Well we're somewhat on topic but I understood from reading that link is Intel's implementation is based on material they had to license from AMD...in other words...like AMD would be sued for breach if they used x86 without Intel's consent...the same would hold for Intel if they used x64 without AMD's consent. So my whole point is sure, both companies may know how to use each others' contributions ,as you point out,...they can't use them outside of their licensing agreements and if one cancelled on the other that's what the situation would be. Hence, AMD going ARM or MIPS only they'd have no reason to keep giving Intel something for nothing unless its covered in their settlement.

But the overall point for me with these thread is this...biased compiler in....less meaningful results come out. Sure they are "real world results" and I agree they should be reported...but only lazy people wouldn't note on something like the compiler bias and what effect that can/does have.
     
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post #165 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by yukon View Post

AMD has a fine design, ask intel they polished amd's turd back in the Athlon's days.

Why so much talk about consumption?? You guy's know it's negligible?? Right?

Dare I say I've saved enough money not switching mobo's every week to save that 2.00 more a month in my power bill? That's a whole lot of bull and psshhh to me.

Intel is on the leading edge in the desktop market right now based on unusable speed and power.. Kinda like having nothing bigger than a driveway to run that Bugatti in. I understand future proofing but as soon as the new tech hit's the market we all dive in. More so with intel guy's, this not being a dig.. Fact is, Intel has been able to offer more performance gain's with the chips they offer. But with no real use for it.

On the flipside AMD offers a lower cost alternative that will, other than in benches, provide matched visual performance.

As an amd guy I am not biased, I've though about Intel for some time. But the cost to flip the script is higher than all this power consumption talk period.. That is by far the weakest argument I've ever heard. I assume intel guy's won't be overclocking there CPU's or GPU's cause then they would be consuming more power.. NOBODY HERE SWITCHES 1K WORTH OF HARDWARE BASED ON POWER CONSUMPTION.

This is not a dig to the intel users. I respect and understand your choice, saying it's faster is probably enough reason. I promise my light's will stay on no matter what brand I choose.


Efficiency was not said in regards to power consumption, although that is true as well... They are simply more efficient, as in: able to do more work in less time to greater effect.
   
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