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You know what? I don't like GK110's (780,Titan) technological direction.

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
I was analysing the meaning of the 770 release after some AMD fans were raving that it's a "mere overclocked 680" and while I almost agreed with them (almost, because the chip's stepping is also slightly increased but perhaps only for minor improvements that yield more stable overclocks), I realized the higher end models aren't that spectacular technologically either.

I mean look at them. What did they do? They duplicated the hardware features in large. They didn't create anything massively different, they just enlarged it. It sure needs some minor R&D to make it stable, but it's a doubled die size with a doubled transistor count (and some limited differences). It's almost like they made an "internal SLI", well of course not exactly but it's largely that: the same features duplicated, or just increased, more or less. thumb.gif

So, yeah, if one is going to badmouth 770, I don't think 780 or Titan should be left as "innocent". It's not like they revolutionized anything on their own. Their process appears to be similar with their main source of power being duplication. wink.gif

But don't get me wrong, I do not chase witches here. I'm just interested in pointing out reality. And if someone is going to find GK110 OK then I don't think a GK104 with a slightly higher stepping is not OK either.

So what I would like to conclude with is not a witch hunt or bad mouthing NVIDIA but that people should get the product they need, and not one that is supposed to be "clean technologically" (in an "ethical" way) because as you can see, neither new GK104s or GK110s are "innocent" or "bad". They just are. smile.gif
Edited by fateswarm - 7/10/13 at 5:27am
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post #2 of 11
While I largely agree that this series of GPUs from nVidia was abit of a cop out, the GTX780 should have been the GTX680 etc. I think at the end of the day, they competed well with AMD with how they've done it.

I do however think the Titan/GTX780 have their place, the GTX770 however, doesn't, too little vram and too narrow memory bus to be that high up in the 7 series. The GTX 760 should have been comparable to the GTX680 with the 2gb vram and memory bus, the 770/780 both should have been steps up.
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post #3 of 11
You know what, I thought the same. I have always been a fan of NVidia and just moved away from 2 570s in SLI to a single 3gb sapphire 7950 and the difference for me is night and day. The temps have dropped dramatically and I am getting almost (and I say almost) the same score as 2 570s in 3Dmark11. The sapphire is overclocked 1175 on the core and 1575 on the memory and the temp running furmark doesn't go over 60deg. The new NVidia range, especially the 770 doesn't make sense. The 3GB of video ram is also making a difference with 1920x1080. Hanging out to see where AMD take their new range.
post #4 of 11
It's not "just" a bigger chip. The GK110 features DP-units, which are VERY important to supercomputing. Along with that: The memory bus is way bigger: 384 bit instead of 256. It might not matter to 1080P gamers, but it will to 1600P and up...

The GPU is far from "a bigger variant".

Besides: All the GK-XXX cards feature the same "architecture". Nvidia just put the focus for the GK104 on pure graphical power, where as the GK110 also supports proper GPGPU computing...

And about VRAM: It's (nearly) worthless if you don't have the bandwidth to use it... (That's why the GTX 680 4GB wasn't ideal for surround...)
Edited by xioros - 7/10/13 at 5:28am
   
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post #5 of 11
Nvidia has kicked AMD's butt in terms of performance per watt, however that is solely because of the games not using ligthing effects as much as I would like. There isn't a single transparency effect in place as far as I'm aware. The games utilize TEXTURE mapping to the fullest when I would like more pixel effects and HDR. Come on, how hard is it to incorporate water, luminance effects? Sprites being rendered as textures while they may also be rendered as luminance...
In the case, my wish comes true, Nvidia is against the rocks. They are equal at lower quality FP16 HDR; however at full color range, all AMD hardware have 250% higher FP32 HDR blending effect performance. So, basically 7970 is %150 better than a GTX Titan.
Come on you developers! Design me Tiberian Sun 2014!
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post #6 of 11
Are you new to GPU's? It's basically been like this one both ends....

Take a huge die, release it as the flagship card. Cut out a couple pieces, release that as the second fastest card.
Create a smaller die, release it as your mid-tier card. Cut out a couple pieces, release that as the budget gamer card.
Create an even smaller die, or just cut even more from the medium tier, and release entry level/budget friendly GPU's.

Nvidia's previous terms for their cards were "Tank" "Predator" "Sniper" to pretty much describe what each category is metaphorically.

Not sure what you expected? They're the fastest GPU's on the market by quite a large margin.

The Titan/780 is actually the spiritual successor to the 580. Pretty much double the performance, with less heat and less power.
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post #7 of 11
GK110 is an entirely new architecture oriented at compute performance. It's an amazing architecture for what it was designed for, and there is no competition for it when it comes to HPC applications.

GK104 is GK110 with some compute sections disabled.

Neither AMD or Nvidia release multiple architectures in the same product channel (desktop GPU in this case). It takes years of development and billions of dollars of R&D to build a new architecture from scratch, it simply wouldn't make any sense. On the Nvidia vs AMD side of things, it's worth noting that AMD does the exact same thing, and their architectures are actually closer from one gen to the next than Nvidias are, because they don't cater to the supercomputing market nearly as much and thus don't have to consider HPC performance as much as gaming performance.

You should probably look into how the chip design business actually works before making assumptions like this.
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post #8 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by mechtech View Post

GK110 is an entirely new architecture oriented at compute performance. It's an amazing architecture for what it was designed for, and there is no competition for it when it comes to HPC applications.

GK104 is GK110 with some compute sections disabled.

Neither AMD or Nvidia release multiple architectures in the same product channel (desktop GPU in this case). It takes years of development and billions of dollars of R&D to build a new architecture from scratch, it simply wouldn't make any sense. On the Nvidia vs AMD side of things, it's worth noting that AMD does the exact same thing, and their architectures are actually closer from one gen to the next than Nvidias are, because they don't cater to the supercomputing market nearly as much and thus don't have to consider HPC performance as much as gaming performance.

You should probably look into how the chip design business actually works before making assumptions like this.

well i wouldn't go too far as to say there's no competition in compute. The 7970's are typically best when it comes to compute. Obviously when it comes to Cuda there's no competition, but it's really down to the drivers. For the most part, Nvidia's Titan looks and feels like a monster compute card, however, the drivers are more gaming focused. (not from experience, just from what I've read)
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post #9 of 11
Hey fateswarm why don't you post your specs you've posted 452 times whats the deal? what rig you running?
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post #10 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyph3r View Post

While I largely agree that this series of GPUs from nVidia was abit of a cop out, the GTX780 should have been the GTX680 etc. I think at the end of the day, they competed well with AMD with how they've done it.

I do however think the Titan/GTX780 have their place, the GTX770 however, doesn't, too little vram and too narrow memory bus to be that high up in the 7 series. The GTX 760 should have been comparable to the GTX680 with the 2gb vram and memory bus, the 770/780 both should have been steps up.
Well, yeah though it might still be a good choice for most uses on a 1080p monitor.
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