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[Forbes] China Moves To Lift 13 Year Ban On Video Game Consoles - Page 2

post #11 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poisoner View Post

If I was Chinese or Korean I wouldn't be too fond of Japan.

Ain't that a bit over-arching? I'm Korean, but I have no animosity towards Japan and their products. In fact, I love a lot of them.

You maybe could say a subset of people have animosity, but quite a few Chinese/Korean people actually like Japan.
post #12 of 68
Great they can play Halo 1 now.
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post #13 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by BankaiKiller View Post

Great, time to invest in Chinese currency. Sell your American dollars!

only their worth nothing redface.gif
post #14 of 68
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by perfectblade View Post

you're the naive one if you don't recognize how big piracy is in china. it was quite easy to buy modified consoles to play pirated games even DURING the ban. not to mention how loads of malls have people openly selling pirated stuff-not just on the street but even in more official places of business.

still this is pretty cool overall and i can't really comprehend why they wouldn't have done this before. though i guess they do have some pretty crazy protectionist policies going on there overall

I'm not naïve, just better informed than you. Allow me to explain why this is good for hardware manufacturers(despite Forbes contributor thoughtful remarks), developers and Chinese gamers...even for you and for me biggrin.gif
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Piracy is there because...what? Because the ban. That didn't stop people from importing/buying consoles at high prices, also original games to play online, because YES, despite what mass media and opinion crafters tells you, you can easily play online in China with a perfectly original Xbox360/PS3 and a perfectly original game. As long as it is Region Free/NTSC-J no prob. You can also play with PAL/NTSC, but I've never used these so there will probably be some loops to jump through. Nevermind, they have a huge black market because that is what is created when there is a demand for something and there is no/small offer to satiate that demand...or a prohibition/ban in place.(drugs in every country, guns in many...consoles and games in China tongue.gif).

Who profits from it? The black marketeers, the suppliers and the people that allow that black market to exist. The import heads are either importing them from the cheapest supplier available, grabbing that consoles from friendly onsite-foreign factories, or worse, stealthily funneling part of the production to satiate that demand. "Malfunctioning board","melted plastic"...you know, the usual drill. Profit margins on the consoles? From the cost of importing/over-producing at source/etc. to the price you want to set. Profit margin on the games?The cost of a bulk shipment of DVD/HD-DVD/BR to the price they set. That said, I've seen console/origina game prices first-hand in those malls you say...they're even higher than in Europe, and we are already slapped by the usual direct conversion $=€.

Now, let's see. Piracy is rampant in China because, in essence, import prices are absurdily high(like import in every country) so people chip their consoles and pirate games. None of that over-profit goes to the hardware manufacturers, the developers, etc. Now, you eliminate that ban barrier and manufacturers can ship their consoles to China. Because you're cutting many parts of the chain and now you're the one who sets the price as well as manufacturing the product, you can drop it real low but just above production cost and still profit...or sell those consoles at the same price as in Europe/USA, which still is lower than in lots of places in China and profit even more like a bastard. That takes care of the console black market, cause you're now the official supplier and your prices are better than those of the "unnoficial" world. Nobody is gonna get a product which costs more or doesn't have any kind of warranty, etc. when they can grab the same from their official manufacturers will all the bells and whistles.

Now, games. If PS3 DRM is something to go by, they'll have at least a good 4 year run before the console gets cracked. But you don't want to alienate such a HUGE potential market. You wanna grab them by the balls and keep them hooked. You wanna treat them well to have a strong entry. So you start supporting the market. Lower prices, offer good access to online(the same as before), localize your games, promote on site first party/third party development,etc,etc. They can cut a game's price by half because the potential market is just as big as the Europe/USA market combined and even more. I mean, price every original game at 5$ equivalence on yuans. That's not expensive for chinese. Multiply it by the installed and NOW KNOWN console base. Suddenly, Activision is selling their chinese flavor of CoD(People's Army saving the day against the imperialist USA nazi forces) well below the price of any CoD EVER but they're getting 10x the profits...cause the market. And you still have a perfectly original console with a perfectly original games collection which can play online without a problem. And it's cheaper than going black market before the ban was lifted. thumb.gif

Now, there is the problem of the government. But with such a huge pile of money waiting for them in taxes and such things, I highly doubt they're going to get all Mao/Khmer Rouge on this kind of western cultural corruption. cheers.gif

All that wall of text, in sum: profits for whoever manufactured/shipped that consoles; profits for every developer who gets to sell in a official or unnoficial way in China; creation and development of a strong chinese market(developers, producers, distributors,etc); and in turn, as a market and huge proftis oppurtunity opens for developers, they can get even more money to put toward games, which benefits us. That is, at least, the potential on this situation.

Feel free to correct me where you think I'm wrong, I'm open for debate...but offer some kind of reasoning or insight other than the official western propaganda and press. It's really tiring to read/hear/watch about child-eating western-hating pirating cheapskate chinese communist all the time. Cause the news said so. tongue.gif
    
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post #15 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonehxc View Post

SOURCE

AMD, Microsoft and Sony must be laughing maniacally as well as many developers. biggrin.gif

I don't get the second point in the Forbes article. Piracy? It exist EVERYWHERE and it's HUGE. USA, France, Japan, Germany, Spain...China. Such a naïve point of view must surely come from a Goody Two-Shoes who believes everything on their side of life is done right by the book of our "betters". lachen.gif

I wouldn't say having official and unimpeded access to a potential 1300 million souls(and rising) market isn't a huge boon. It's a LUDICROUS WIN. They still need to buy their consoles. Black marketeers won't profit as much anymore from import, that profit will go to the companies. And if they want to drive people off from pirating games, they just have to price consoles and games accordingly to the market in which they're entering and offer some kind of add-in value, like access to online games(which is ginormous in China), chinese translations and voice-overs in like EVRYTHING, never mind Chinese focused developers and games...

Paul Tassi, you're drunk. Go home. mad.gif

The point being the Chinese mentality on intellectual property is: If its in the public its available to the public. It isn't piracy in the sense that there are some people that do it, its piracy in the sense that they have no moral or cultural qualms with reverse engineering anything, using, and selling it themselves for a profit.

It is a huge win, but you're being culturally naive if you don't understand the reason why everyone deals carefully with the Chinese.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonehxc View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
I'm not naïve, just better informed than you. Allow me to explain why this is good for hardware manufacturers(despite Forbes contributor thoughtful remarks), developers and Chinese gamers...even for you and for me biggrin.gif
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Piracy is there because...what? Because the ban. That didn't stop people from importing/buying consoles at high prices, also original games to play online, because YES, despite what mass media and opinion crafters tells you, you can easily play online in China with a perfectly original Xbox360/PS3 and a perfectly original game. As long as it is Region Free/NTSC-J no prob. You can also play with PAL/NTSC, but I've never used these so there will probably be some loops to jump through. Nevermind, they have a huge black market because that is what is created when there is a demand for something and there is no/small offer to satiate that demand...or a prohibition/ban in place.(drugs in every country, guns in many...consoles and games in China tongue.gif).

Who profits from it? The black marketeers, the suppliers and the people that allow that black market to exist. The import heads are either importing them from the cheapest supplier available, grabbing that consoles from friendly onsite-foreign factories, or worse, stealthily funneling part of the production to satiate that demand. "Malfunctioning board","melted plastic"...you know, the usual drill. Profit margins on the consoles? From the cost of importing/over-producing at source/etc. to the price you want to set. Profit margin on the games?The cost of a bulk shipment of DVD/HD-DVD/BR to the price they set. That said, I've seen console/origina game prices first-hand in those malls you say...they're even higher than in Europe, and we are already slapped by the usual direct conversion $=€.

Now, let's see. Piracy is rampant in China because, in essence, import prices are absurdily high(like import in every country) so people chip their consoles and pirate games. None of that over-profit goes to the hardware manufacturers, the developers, etc. Now, you eliminate that ban barrier and manufacturers can ship their consoles to China. Because you're cutting many parts of the chain and now you're the one who sets the price as well as manufacturing the product, you can drop it real low but just above production cost and still profit...or sell those consoles at the same price as in Europe/USA, which still is lower than in lots of places in China and profit even more like a bastard. That takes care of the console black market, cause you're now the official supplier and your prices are better than those of the "unnoficial" world. Nobody is gonna get a product which costs more or doesn't have any kind of warranty, etc. when they can grab the same from their official manufacturers will all the bells and whistles.

Now, games. If PS3 DRM is something to go by, they'll have at least a good 4 year run before the console gets cracked. But you don't want to alienate such a HUGE potential market. You wanna grab them by the balls and keep them hooked. You wanna treat them well to have a strong entry. So you start supporting the market. Lower prices, offer good access to online(the same as before), localize your games, promote on site first party/third party development,etc,etc. They can cut a game's price by half because the potential market is just as big as the Europe/USA market combined and even more. I mean, price every original game at 5$ equivalence on yuans. That's not expensive for chinese. Multiply it by the installed and NOW KNOWN console base. Suddenly, Activision is selling their chinese flavor of CoD(People's Army saving the day against the imperialist USA nazi forces) well below the price of any CoD EVER but they're getting 10x the profits...cause the market. And you still have a perfectly original console with a perfectly original games collection which can play online without a problem. And it's cheaper than going black market before the ban was lifted. thumb.gif

Now, there is the problem of the government. But with such a huge pile of money waiting for them in taxes and such things, I highly doubt they're going to get all Mao/Khmer Rouge on this kind of western cultural corruption. cheers.gif

All that wall of text, in sum: profits for whoever manufactured/shipped that consoles; profits for every developer who gets to sell in a official or unnoficial way in China; creation and development of a strong chinese market(developers, producers, distributors,etc); and in turn, as a market and huge proftis oppurtunity opens for developers, they can get even more money to put toward games, which benefits us. That is, at least, the potential on this situation.

Feel free to correct me where you think I'm wrong, I'm open for debate...but offer some kind of reasoning or insight other than the official western propaganda and press. It's really tiring to read/hear/watch about child-eating western-hating pirating cheapskate chinese communist all the time. Cause the news said so. tongue.gif

Your economics assessment would be closely accurate, but you're really missing the cultural piece which is the true motivator, and the reason why the chinese economy has boomed so well in the late 80s/90s/2000s as they blatantly stole electronic / software / mechanical / engineering intellectual property.. and continue to do so.
Edited by Avonosac - 7/16/13 at 8:54am
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post #16 of 68
I don't understand. I clearly remember that 5 years ago all my friends have PSPs, Xbox 360s and PS2s in China.

In fact, my grandma got a PS2 hand bag from one of the PS2 promos. Too bad she didn't get me a PS2 though frown.gif
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post #17 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToxicAdam View Post

Considering how much animosity China has towards Japan, this could be a huge opportunity for Microsoft.

Wrong, actually. Playstation is a preferred console here and Japanese tech is very well received. However console market is small even tiny by comparison to PC gaming market. Most people dont really play AAA titles here at all since they are not published in Chinese. Game market is usually in Internet Cafes and lesser scale PCs at home. Most played games here are DOTA, LoL, WoW, Warcraft 3, CS, some other mmos, CS clones, and some smaller scale online games, like dancing titles.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

If there really is no real established PS3/360 client base over there, these are huge news, new consoles could sell tenths of millions units on their first year there.
No they wont, you can buy any console right now for almost similar price or lower! With rule of thumb in china. If anything is released legally here it is usually more expansive due to taxation and all other government regulations so everyone gets cheap imports from Hong Kong.
Right now you can get an xbox game for about 0.8 usd they come out on a cd and work no problem just chip you xbox for 100 rmb and its good to go.
Who in their right mind would spend 400 RMB per game when you can have a hack installed plus 30 other games to go with it for price of one?
Also in china government has bunch of crazy rules but they dont enforce them, like gaming ban. You can go to any electronic store (not official retailers ofc) in any city and they will have consoles and console games sold everywhere! However you can never find any PC games sold, just cant at all.
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post #18 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avonosac View Post

It is a huge win, but you're being culturally naive if you don't understand the reason why everyone deals carefully with the Chinese.

Which era are we living in? Early 80s?
How can anyone be "careful" dealing with the Chinese in the Tech industry, when almost everything is made over there? businesssmiley.png
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post #19 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by StormXLR View Post

Who in their right mind would spend 400 RMB per game when you can have a hack installed plus 30 other games to go with it for price of one?
Also in china government has bunch of crazy rules but they dont enforce them, like gaming ban. You can go to any electronic store (not official retailers ofc) in any city and they will have consoles and console games sold everywhere! However you can never find any PC games sold, just cant at all.

Any hacks that apply on older generation will probably carry over to new one as well. I am sure chinese middle and upper middle class will gladly adopt new hardware quite soon.
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post #20 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonehxc View Post

SOURCE

I don't get the second point in the Forbes article. Piracy? It exist EVERYWHERE and it's HUGE. USA, France, Japan, Germany, Spain...China. Such a naïve point of view must surely come from a Goody Two-Shoes who believes everything on their side of life is done right by the book of our "betters". lachen.gif

You clearly have no concept of Piracy in China. It's a whole new level nothing like Europe or the Americas. It's ain't a few dodgy market stalls, some guy in a pub and a load of kids playing with torrents and burners. It is total and utter copying often produced at an Industrial level (sometimes equal to or bigger than the genuine stuff) and then sold openly at a retail level (as openly as the real stuff, infact often more openly).
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