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[Forbes] China Moves To Lift 13 Year Ban On Video Game Consoles - Page 7

post #61 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcfoo View Post

I agree with most of the things you say, in a pretty polite manner I might add.
I disagree mostly in the last part quoted : the people in China know that few things are granted, they have limited rights and that they have to fight hard for whatever they are going to get.
Their fight starts @ a survival level, not a getting rich level. This is a communist country, with very poor socialistic values.

Western countries and especially people in the US have been spoiled, they take for granted freedoms and fundamental democracy & equality what in reality you still need to constantly struggle for, and in their mindset are all "temporarily inconvenienced millionaires”. Thus a vast majority of people supports anti-socialistic measures, litigation and tax breaks.
There is no “lower class” in western countries, that term has been banned, yet millions of poor survive either in the shadows of the economic system, or because of the socialistic foundations in education and healthcare established in western countries, which now start being washed away.

Despite many growing poor in the West, few grow up with their back against the wall as the poor in other countries do, thus lacking motivation.
Things change on that aspect, esp. in areas suffering in the US interior and European countries deep into crisis, but...fingers are still pointing out-wards in all of them.

Good responses here.

I feel that most Americans are motivated to work hard not because they feel they will get rich, but because of pride in their work. At least this is what I have observed in my lifetime at many different jobs. Yes there is a difference in motivation to work because you need the money or have pride in your work. Is it a nationalistic thing? Yes. In my dealings with Chinese companies (which is weekly), there is no sense of urgency and not enough pride of work. This is not a slam on the Chinese peoples, rather the result of the historic culture where the lowly worker has no say and instead looks to the boss for guidance and direction in all situations. This is changing though and it is a direct result of when Hong Kong was given back to China. (at least that is when I started noticing the turn around). This is also part of the reason most of my customers have pulled manufacturing out of China and back into the US. There is no ownership of quality on the basic work force. The worker on the line has had no authority to even speak up when they see an issue. On my manufacturing line and all of my vendors (and customers) if anyone sees a quality issue they have the power and authority to stop production. Again, this is not a slam on the people, just the way the culture has been for thousands of years (and used to be the same even in the US). This is changing and I expect in another 10-20 years they will come to understand these issues, just as the rest of the world has.

This is just my personal observation and not necessarily true for all companies, just the ones I deal with.
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post #62 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by airbozo View Post

Good responses here.

I feel that most Americans are motivated to work hard not because they feel they will get rich, but because of pride in their work. At least this is what I have observed in my lifetime at many different jobs. Yes there is a difference in motivation to work because you need the money or have pride in your work. Is it a nationalistic thing? Yes. In my dealings with Chinese companies (which is weekly), there is no sense of urgency and not enough pride of work. This is not a slam on the Chinese peoples, rather the result of the historic culture where the lowly worker has no say and instead looks to the boss for guidance and direction in all situations. This is changing though and it is a direct result of when Hong Kong was given back to China. (at least that is when I started noticing the turn around). This is also part of the reason most of my customers have pulled manufacturing out of China and back into the US. There is no ownership of quality on the basic work force. The worker on the line has had no authority to even speak up when they see an issue. On my manufacturing line and all of my vendors (and customers) if anyone sees a quality issue they have the power and authority to stop production. Again, this is not a slam on the people, just the way the culture has been for thousands of years (and used to be the same even in the US). This is changing and I expect in another 10-20 years they will come to understand these issues, just as the rest of the world has.

This is just my personal observation and not necessarily true for all companies, just the ones I deal with.

I would add what I think is a Chinese issue to the part about quality here.

Lack of Brands. A lot of stuff is churned out of Chinese factories emphasising bulk. They stack it high and sell it very cheap, the stuff is often unbranded with a final branding slapped on by whatever importer (along with whatever fat % on price they add). It leads to a situation where the factories often don't care about quality as there is little comeback or link to them when the consumer has issues due to quality, instead they aim on maximising quantity and volume sales. Until they try to build brands (beyond meaningless designations like "factory no.66" etc) at that manufacturing level I don't think they ever will take ownership of quality at any level. Of course they also won't change without consumer demand for that, stack it high and sell it cheap is working for them broadly across the board from electronics to motorbikes to small arms and anything inbetween.
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post #63 of 68
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by airbozo View Post

Good responses here.

I feel that most Americans are motivated to work hard not because they feel they will get rich, but because of pride in their work. At least this is what I have observed in my lifetime at many different jobs. Yes there is a difference in motivation to work because you need the money or have pride in your work. Is it a nationalistic thing? Yes. In my dealings with Chinese companies (which is weekly), there is no sense of urgency and not enough pride of work. This is not a slam on the Chinese peoples, rather the result of the historic culture where the lowly worker has no say and instead looks to the boss for guidance and direction in all situations. This is changing though and it is a direct result of when Hong Kong was given back to China. (at least that is when I started noticing the turn around). This is also part of the reason most of my customers have pulled manufacturing out of China and back into the US. There is no ownership of quality on the basic work force. The worker on the line has had no authority to even speak up when they see an issue. On my manufacturing line and all of my vendors (and customers) if anyone sees a quality issue they have the power and authority to stop production. Again, this is not a slam on the people, just the way the culture has been for thousands of years (and used to be the same even in the US). This is changing and I expect in another 10-20 years they will come to understand these issues, just as the rest of the world has.

This is just my personal observation and not necessarily true for all companies, just the ones I deal with.

They'll change based on income going up. What kind of proud and productive worker can you have when salaries are low as hell and benefits are non-existant, like is now(but changing)? I'll tell you, the idiot BS feeded one, cause the rest are working because it's the only way to maintain themselves and don't die of hunger. No one is gonna break his back a-la-ant in the name of the country, the factory or productivity for a meagre pay after 60-70 hours of work. You have good workers, and a good product? Pay them more, and everything comes next.

Economy 101, distributing money generates more money. Hoarding money generates poverty. As you pay more to your workers, they're happier and prone to work harder to higher quality standards. The benefits don't end there, now they're able to buy more things and get more services since they're being paid more, which makes other people get more income. Now you have a stronger demand, so you can ramp up production, invest in new facilities to accomodate more machinery and workers, etc etc etc. Repeat ad nauseam for a happy and productive economy, just what we've "forgotten" in the "democratic", "civilized" and western world. And we will pay dearly for it. biggrin.gif
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post #64 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by WR6133 View Post

I would add what I think is a Chinese issue to the part about quality here.

Lack of Brands. A lot of stuff is churned out of Chinese factories emphasising bulk. They stack it high and sell it very cheap, the stuff is often unbranded with a final branding slapped on by whatever importer (along with whatever fat % on price they add). It leads to a situation where the factories often don't care about quality as there is little comeback or link to them when the consumer has issues due to quality, instead they aim on maximising quantity and volume sales. Until they try to build brands (beyond meaningless designations like "factory no.66" etc) at that manufacturing level I don't think they ever will take ownership of quality at any level. Of course they also won't change without consumer demand for that, stack it high and sell it cheap is working for them broadly across the board from electronics to motorbikes to small arms and anything inbetween.

Agreed. You said it much better than I did.

Many moons ago I was in manufacturing, building the big box tape drives (think IBM 10" tape drives the size of a full computer rack) and the emphasis was on shipments. There were even multiple signs around the manufacturing floor emblazoned with the motto "SHIP IT!". Once quality took a nose dive all of the signs were tagged with an "SH" before the "IT". We ended up closing manufacturing down for a month while we re-invented the process.
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post #65 of 68
"Big China" is supposingly a strong sentiment over there, unlike the American Dream which is more about personal success, so I don't know if I can agree that people in the US take more pride into the "made in the USA" concept than people badging the "Made in the RPC" do. Probably neither matches the Japanese in that.

From personal experience in building construction, american workers take very little pride in their work...rolleyes.gif

As of the materials, working/living conditions etc, plz, don't charge the Chinese exclusively for...American, European, Korean etc companies that outsource production there, know exactly what they are paying (or not paying) for, and they fuly understand and tolerate it as long as it maximizes their profits. Nothing more, nothing less.
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post #66 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcfoo View Post

"Big China" is supposingly a strong sentiment over there, unlike the American Dream which is more about personal success, so I don't know if I can agree that people in the US take more pride into the "made in the USA" concept than people badging the "Made in the RPC" do. Probably neither matches the Japanese in that.

Agreed!

From personal experience in building construction, american workers take very little pride in their work...rolleyes.gif

I also think that depends on the company, and the workers.

As of the materials, working/living conditions etc, plz, don't charge the Chinese exclusively for...American, European, Korean etc companies that outsource production there, know exactly what they are paying (or not paying) for, and they fuly understand and tolerate it as long as it maximizes their profits. Nothing more, nothing less.

Yes this goes back to the company requesting the service. My company has turned down several jobs, because the customer did not see the value of engineering quality into the design and manufacturing costs. A couple of them went out of business months after releasing a crappy product.
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post #67 of 68
New Chinese Console releases. Contains every NES,SNES, N64, Genesis, 3DO, Jaguar, Atari, 32x, Sega CD, Saturn, Game gear, Wonderswan, Playstation, Gameboy, and Gameboy Advance game in existence built-in! Sells 100 million consoles in first year!
post #68 of 68
China is opening the doors for console.
Let the games begin!
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