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[TH] Intel Core i7-4960X Preview: Ivy Bridge-E, Benchmarked - Page 39

post #381 of 439
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger S. View Post

The motherboard will be dated long before the chip.

yep, which is why im hoping to see some more refreshers of x79 boards smile.gif
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post #382 of 439
When Haswell-E will be out 14nm will be out. There is a chance - albeit small - that 14nm will be glorious. And then you'll think 14nm is cool and so on.
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post #383 of 439
Quote:
Originally Posted by fateswarm View Post

When Haswell-E will be out 14nm will be out. There is a chance - albeit small - that 14nm will be glorious. And then you'll think 14nm is cool and so on.

my hope is by the time haswell e hits, games will be optimized for multi threading and 6+ cores, which is why im excited for haswell - e

and if that isnt the case, broadwell it is!
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post #384 of 439
I'm not very optimistic about games because I understand the limitations of multithreading. When the code is for interactive applications, they have to sync with a main thread that keeps everything under control (because naturally the game must keep some sort of consistency and common time). So there is a limit. It is practically always good to have good single-core performance and then at least 2-3 more cores for side-jobs. Rarely some games can do very independent jobs (e.g. independently calc what other players are doing that do not interact with you at the time) but even that has limits. In contrast a non-interactive app can just split everything to 1000 pieces without incident.
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post #385 of 439
Quote:
Originally Posted by fateswarm View Post

I'm not very optimistic about games because I understand the limitations of multithreading. When the code is for interactive applications, they have to sync with a main thread that keeps everything under control (because naturally the game must keep some sort of consistency and common time). So there is a limit. It is practically always good to have good single-core performance and then at least 2-3 more cores for side-jobs. Rarely some games can do very independent jobs (e.g. independently calc what other players are doing that do not interact with you at the time) but even that has limits. In contrast a non-interactive app can just split everything to 1000 pieces without incident.

You clearly don't understand how multi thread works. Its about throughput, what's better: 8 line highway for 100 cars or a 1 lane? If all cars are at the same speed (the timing and sync as you would put it) I can send 8 cars at a time vs 1, so my thoughput for 1 lane is 1/8 of the 8 lanes.

This is completely dependent on the developer to take advantage of it. We all know this.

IPC improvement would still be about 10% for ivy and 15-20% for haswell.

Read this wiki on multi thread, how its used, how its developed, the different Ways of utilization and the different uses: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multithreading_(computer_architecture)
Edited by jomama22 - 8/17/13 at 9:14pm
     
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post #386 of 439
Fate is thinking about how multi-threading is currently done in games, something already acknowledged as a sub-optimal solution by computer scientists and software devs alike.
    
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post #387 of 439
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBEG View Post

Fate is thinking about how multi-threading is currently done in games, something already acknowledged as a sub-optimal solution by computer scientists and software devs alike.

Well sure. But the post he replied to was about multi threaded games in the future. If he just stated "single thread improvement will only be 10%" then he could have saved some time reiterating what we already know.

Also doesn't change the fact that what he is describing for "interactive" applications is the absolute wrong way to do it. The reason why I say it is completely dependent on the developers

http://seanmiddleditch.com/journal/2011/04/multi-threaded-game-engines/

Good read on game engines and multi thread CPUs.
Edited by jomama22 - 8/17/13 at 9:44pm
     
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post #388 of 439
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpacemanSpliff View Post

Forgive me for being skeptical but there's several things in that article that raise my eyebrow of doubts...

First, an 8 core -E series is likely to be the x960X edition as opposed to the a x930K, and it wouldn't surprise me to see them not offer it for the x930K either, just to maximize the squeeze of profits... let's be honest, in their shoes, wouldn't you squeeze the market as well? Of course those who want it are paying a grand, but don't be surprised if they raise the prices on the whole lower part of the series figure around $350-$400 for the x820K, around $575-$675 for the x930K if it's truly an 8-core, and the top of the line will still run you a grand... Just calling it how I see it off of how Intel's down this in the past... after all the lowest priced current offering from Intel with 8 cores is the E5-2650 @ about $1125... and Intel isn't known for dropping prices much from generation to generation.

Second, let's all stop to remember that it was a good 6 months at least before stable, solid performing DDR3 ram binned sets were dropping, what makes you think DDR4 will be any different? CPUs are often just the same way... 6-12 months before the best performing and refined units are on shelves.

Third, that article makes it seem as if quad channel ram support doesn't exist yet as it makes the comparison to older triple channel setups... completely ignoring X79 SB-E setups already support quad channel memory...

Finally it is from Guru3D so given that they have a history of not always verifying the legitimacy of their sources... it's probably not a bad idea to take things with a grain of salt... after all... anything can happen over a year's time to derail a planned launch.

I see it like Hexacores were, start with it as an expensive EE chip but by the time the next one is coming out a cheaper version has come out. (eg. 980X to 970)
    
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post #389 of 439
Pretty sure motherboard manufacturers will release new X79 boards because most X79 boards have been discontinued and not to mention it will be a pain to buy an older board where you will need to flash the BIOS just to get an IB-E CPU just to get it working will be annoying.
    
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post #390 of 439
jomama22, we'll see if your theory holds in practice. If it were that easy, we would have done it.

Have you ever tried to make a multithreaded application? When you do, come back and tell me how you avoided inflicting severe latencies by the mere act of having to use mutexes or similar contraptions.

Sure you may do it by avoiding to use syncing in the first place by, for example, not syncing at all when calculating what another player is doing in the game (that does not interact with you at the time), or you may do forms of what GPUs do but in a software nature, e.g. multithreading the calculation of a singularly demanding bulk of work (which must be restricted to not take long, CPUs don't just stream video).

But at the end of the day, yes, don't be afraid of the word, it is an interactive application and you will have to sync with a main thread and you will inflict severe latencies by the very act.

So, before insulting people, see if you have any idea of what multithreading is in the real world.
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