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Haswell Overclocking Guide [With Statistics] - Page 1075

post #10741 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneO View Post

That is not the case. It does not throw in 0.1V across the board. Read my post a few pages back. For a mild (4.2) OC it only boosted my core voltage by 0.016V. Intel apparently boosts it for a reason - the newer AVX instructions need more core voltage to run stably.

BF4 may be using advanced AVX instructions, and since you may not be stable for them because of the way you test your overclock (you haven't tested against them). If you only tweak using adaptive using Realbench, which doesn't use AVX, then you may not be stable against code that uses AVX instructions.

I reallly can't understand what you have observed as everything I have read and everything I have seen produces a consistent ~0.10 literally "across the board".

1. I have tested with AVX instructions,....both RoG Real Bench and AIDA 64 will produce the 0.1 voltage (or more even) increase ..

http://rog.asus.com/241042013/overclocking/rog-realbench-free-app-download-now/
Quote:
We’ve found no free, modern (it has SSE4 and AVX extensions added, and also tests DXVA), single benchmark can offer a rounded idea of the real value in the upgrade, overclock or simple BIOS tweak, so we took it on ourselves to create one.

I didn't notice it that much on the older Asus BIOS (I'm thinking perhaps I wasn't paying enough attention during the Open CL part of the test) but it's showing up pretty consistent under RoG Real Bench and BIOS 1102 .... specifically the Open CL test

At 4.6 Ghz, 1.38 giving me momentary peaks of 1.48.....on BIOS 1102

It doesn't stay there consistently but if I look at the max voltage during the test in HWMonitor, the results are very consistent .... now if ya look at the momentary results, they bounce up and down.... but for the purposes of this discussion, I am referring to the max voltage recorded. It's not a MoBo manufacturers or BIOS thing .... it's an Intel thing....which is why I don't understand getting different results w/ different BIOSs.... then again, was using new version of HWMonitor too.

http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?33488-Maximus-VI-Series-UEFI-Guide-for-Overclocking
Quote:
There is one issue with Offset and Adaptive Mode that needs to be taken into account. The processor contains a power control unit which requests voltage based upon software load. When the PCU detects AVX instructions, it will ramp Vcore automatically beyond normal load voltage. There is no way to lock Vcore to prevent this if using Offset or Adapative Mode. This is pre-programmed by Intel into the PCU.

As an example, a CPU is perfectly stable at 1.25V using a manual voltage (static), if Adaptive or Offset Mode is used instead, it is impossible to lock the core voltage when running software that contains AVX instruction sets – stress tests such as AIDA and Prime contain AVX instruction sets. When the AVX instructions are detected by the PCU, the core voltage will be ramped an additional ~0.1V over your target voltage – so 1.25V will become ~1.35V under AVX load. If you intend to run heavy load AVX software, we recommend using Manual Vcore, NOT Adaptive or Offset Mode

I didn't test much for other than stability at low OCs originally but to try and match up with what you observed I just ran 42 multiplier / 42 cache @ 1.180 volts (no other BIOS changes).

-Image Editing hit 1.181 v
-H.264 Encoding hit 1.184
-Open CL immediately went to 1.280 popping between that and 1.264 but spending most of its time at 1.280
-Heavy Multitasking drops down to 1.18 again

As from everything I have read, there is no way to unlock or control this "feature", I'm a bit perplexed as to how you were able to manage this.
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post #10742 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJFIVEOH View Post

Are Haswells really that much worse for OC'ing? Mine is pretty much stuck at 4.4 and needing a very high VCore to get there. I've noticed a lot of people also struggling to get to mid 4's. When I got my Sandy Bridge that I'm on now, people weren't having that much difficulty getting to mid 4's. Hell, 4.6-4.7 was the norm and the reason the others didn't go that high was because of cooling. I assumed CPU's would only get better with each new release. It doesn't seem to be so in this case. I almost regret not going back to Sandy Bridge or Ivy Bridge.

Average is ~4.5@1.3. There was no mass-gathered info for ivy bridge, but there's no reason to believe that HW cpu's clock significantly worse volt for volt when cooled properly and oc'd with basic education, i think.

Having seen a lot of both.. I get the impression that if haswell is worse, it's only slightly (at the higher end, like 100mhz) and also that a lot of people who oc'd ivy bridge with a few clicks have trouble and report bad oc's running avx2 linpack ALL OVER THE INTERNET
Edited by Cyro999 - 3/5/14 at 12:26pm
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post #10743 of 19539
got my new 4770k today better then my last 3 i had
this is all i tested so far


need to delid but i dont have anymore thermal paste barely had enough for this
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post #10744 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilchronic View Post

got my new 4770k today better then my last 3 i had
this is all i tested so far Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
need to delid but i dont have anymore thermal paste barely had enough for this

That's a nice chip there. Didn't you just get another 4770K last week? How many are you going to bin? How many have you been through? Are you looking for a 5GHz chip?
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post #10745 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

Average is ~4.5@1.3. There was no mass-gathered info for ivy bridge, but there's no reason to believe that HW cpu's clock significantly worse volt for volt when cooled properly and oc'd with basic education, i think.

Having seen a lot of both.. I get the impression that if haswell is worse, it's only slightly (at the higher end, like 100mhz) and also that a lot of people who oc'd ivy bridge with a few clicks have trouble and report bad oc's running avx2 linpack ALL OVER THE INTERNET

Asus reports that they have seen that the voltage curve is much steeper for HW than it was for IB.....that is to step up one multiplier requires bigger and bigger jumps .... bigger than they saw with IB and bigger than SB..... 4.5 to 4.6 requires as much as 0.1 volt on HW

In my own experience....I'd say SB would do 4.7 half the time, IB would do 4.6 half the time and HW will do 4.5 half the time ..... but my experience is not statistically valid as I maybe have done say 20 SB builds down to under dozen HW builds. However saying it's a worse OC'er is kinda inaccurate as a 4.5 HW will toast a 5.0 SB

here's my son's SB box 1st day results for example

Stock 51,53, 53, 51 (1.224) LLC = Auto
4.0 Ghz 52, 54, 55, 52 (1.016-1.024) LLC = Auto
4.2 GHz 54, 56, 57, 55 (1.256 - 1.264) LLC = Auto
4.4 Ghz 56, 60, 60, 67 (1.280 - 1.288) LLC = Auto
4.6 Ghz 62, 66, 68, 65 (1.360 - 1.368) LLC = High
4.8 Ghz 71, 77, 79, 72 (1.408 - 1.416) LLC =Ultra High*

* cooled down after some later tweaking and TIM curing to max core = 75

4.4 to 4.6 required only 0.08 and 4.6 to 4.8 only 0.04 on SB whereas just 4.5 to 4.6 on HW took me 0.105

I have also observed that delidding HW has had less temp drops on average then on IB.

It also seems ....just a general impression from reading forums ..... that on HW, most OCs are limited by peeps voltage limits whereas on IB, seems more were looking to delid as they were hitting temp limits.
Edited by JackNaylorPE - 3/5/14 at 2:45pm
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post #10746 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by angelotti View Post

http://www.mediafire.com/download/3j3571r2ucsdmz3/x264_Stability_Test.7z

Go HERE

This is a updated version of Forceman’s version of the OP’s ‘x264 Benchmark’ (on first page)
I changed the video from Forceman’s version and cleaned the batch file a bit (until Forceman or whomever else has the know-how, cleans it more)

I’m afraid i made a little omission in the batch and it now creates an extra (useless text file).
But i fixed that and also did more clean-up, plus a bit of “cosmetic” change. Please grab this package wich contains all you need EXCEPT THE VIDEO FILE (to keep the size low) then move test-1080p video from the one you already downloaded into test folder inside this one.
Go HERE

Sorry for the inconvenience.
Edited by angelotti - 3/7/14 at 2:54am
post #10747 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by coelacanth View Post

That's a nice chip there. Didn't you just get another 4770K last week? How many are you going to bin? How many have you been through? Are you looking for a 5GHz chip?

ive been through 3 so far this is my 4th.. and yes im looking for a good chip hopefully 5ghz but probably will hold off on buying another cpu and get a gpu pot to put my kingpin under ln2 / dice wink.gif
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post #10748 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by FractinJex View Post

lol yes the 0804 bios for most rog boards is the best I am using it now but the other/new bios's only require a tad more voltage they don't make stability issues at stock....not sure what he meant

I meant that at default BIOS settings "outta the box" and with GFX card set at their default stock settings as in "outta the box", my son can't get thru more than a few hours of BF w/ crashing.....the more ya up the OCs, the more it crashes .....but no crash free setting combinations as yet.

While i got ya ....was doing some experimenting and set CPU multiplier / cache ratio at 42 and voltage to 1.18 ..... wanted to check what voltage spikes Id see at that low OC ..... got thru RoG Real bench seeing like 1.18x thru 3 of the 4 tests and 1.28x as expected on Open CL ..... however I then tried setting Additional Turbo Mode Core Voltage / Total Adaptive Mode CPU Core Voltage to 1.15 and 1.12 and got exact same 1.18 / 1.28 results. I had never tested before at that low a multiplier except on Auto and thot it was odd that it was not down volting. On "Auto" I get 1.152


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wirerat View Post

unless you are delided you will run out of thermal headroom before you reach voltage max. But on the extreme high side I say 1.45v. personally I set my vcore to 1.38 but it can run up to 1.41 under load for my 24/7 @ 4.7ghz. My temps are very low though. it never goes above 65c unless I am stress testing.

I have ran prime 95 with 1.47vcore and 2.20 input voltage and nothing got damaged just toasty.

I hit 1.48 volts under RoG Real Bench (1.38 vcore) at a very comfortable 74C at 4.6 (not delidded)....Im fine with the temps.... not w/ the voltage
Edited by JackNaylorPE - 3/5/14 at 4:28pm
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post #10749 of 19539
bah (double post)
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Intel w/ EK Supremacy Cooling Block - Clean P... Asus Maximus VI Formula 2 x Asus GTX 780 DCII w/ EK Full Cover Blocks a... Mushkin Red Line Ridgeback 2 x 8GB DDR302400 10... 
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2 x SAMSUNG 840 Pro Series MZ-7PD256BW 2.5" 256GB (2 x Seagate ST2000DX001 2TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cach... Asus BW-12B1ST/BLK/G/AS Blue Ray Writer 1 x Alphacool NexXxoS XT45-420 + 1 x Alphacool ... 
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1 x Swiftech 35x2 w/ Heatsink and NB Fan EK -MultiOption RES X3 250 White Acetal Reservoir 5 x PH-F140SP_BK_BLED + 5 x PH-F140SP_BK E22 Rigid 10/12 Acrylic Tubing and Bitspower Ma... 
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911 Carrera
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel w/ EK Supremacy Cooling Block - Clean P... Asus Maximus VI Formula 2 x Asus GTX 780 DCII w/ EK Full Cover Blocks a... Mushkin Red Line Ridgeback 2 x 8GB DDR302400 10... 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
2 x SAMSUNG 840 Pro Series MZ-7PD256BW 2.5" 256GB (2 x Seagate ST2000DX001 2TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cach... Asus BW-12B1ST/BLK/G/AS Blue Ray Writer 1 x Alphacool NexXxoS XT45-420 + 1 x Alphacool ... 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
1 x Swiftech 35x2 w/ Heatsink and NB Fan EK -MultiOption RES X3 250 White Acetal Reservoir 5 x PH-F140SP_BK_BLED + 5 x PH-F140SP_BK E22 Rigid 10/12 Acrylic Tubing and Bitspower Ma... 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
2 x Reeven Six Eyes Fan Controller Windows 7 64 Bit Professional OEM ASUS VG248QE Black 23" 144 Hz Monitor Logitech G19s 920-004985 
PowerCaseMouseAudio
Seasonic X-1250 Phanteks Enthoo Primo Ultimate Chassis Asus RoG GX950 Laser Mouse  Logitech Z5500 
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post #10750 of 19539
@Jack re the 0,.1V boost. I don't know, can't explain it. I am at bios 1302 on Hero.

I tried a couple of things I thought might affect it. Disabled SVID, turned current limit from 110% to 120%. Didn't see any difference, I get a boost at .016-.02V with 4.2 GHz @ 1.2V.

I may try it later with the 4.3 GHz @ 1.25V.

Maybe it is a total power thing and I'm not hitting it.
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