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Haswell Overclocking Guide [With Statistics] - Page 1090

post #10891 of 19580
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE View Post

If you are not interested in assisting in this pursuit of understanding, and validating your result, that's fine. I just thot was no harm in asking smile.gif .

You can put a smiley face on it, but I get this feeling you are calling me a liar, so you know what you can do with that.

I was reporting that

1. There are more than one way to skin a cat - that using offset or adaptive voltage with P95 is a viable alternative to fixed voltage and has its advantages
2. That 1344k P95 is a good stability test that is very good at uncovering instabilities without driving temperatures through the roof
3. That Intel doesn't do things capriciously - there is a reason there is a core voltage boost under heavy floating point loads.

I don't give a rat's a$$ whether you believe me or whether you are seeing 0.1V boost under AVX. \
I only supplied some data points that I would think would help others, in particular I was trying to help you, so don't be such a jerk.

I am seeing, from the lack of comprehension/understanding in the replies here, that this is probably hopeless

-
Edited by GeneO - 3/8/14 at 10:28pm
post #10892 of 19580
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post
 

A huge jump in voltage is caused by adaptive. A small jump in voltage is caused by inherent Haswell issues and/or course sensor readings. By small I'm talking 0.02v. Large I'm talking 0.1v+.

This is the observed behavior as reported from many users.

 

What is there left to disagree on? I will refer you guys to my stress test chart:

You see the peak Vcore vs VID? Peak Vcore for LINPACK on max problem size with updated math logic, the hottest stress test ever invented for haswell, +0.038v for core voltage above set. On manual. Variations of +0.022 to +0.038 depending on the test.


Edited by Darkwizzie - 3/8/14 at 10:30pm
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post #10893 of 19580
You just don't get it. The voltage boost is there for a reason - to make high FPU loads stable, so you need to take this into consideration. This is the overclocking thread, you need to think outside of the box,

OK, so I had captured these some days back. You can clearly see only a .032 (later adjustments made this ,016) V difference between non-AVX and AVX losd.
I didn't do anything special to get this. And I can reproduce it at 4.3GHz and at a small ftt load of 134W.

AIDA64 64 All (CPU, FPU, Memory, cache)

aid64_all.JPG 340k .JPG file

P95 V28.2 1344k

4_2_adp_p95_v28_2.JPG 467k .JPG file

AIDA64 CPU only:

aida64_cpu_only.JPG 326k .JPG file

P95 V25.11 (no AVX):

4_2_adp_p95_v25_11.JPG 395k .JPG file


-
Edited by GeneO - 3/8/14 at 10:48pm
post #10894 of 19580
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneO View Post

You just don't get it. The voltage boost is there for a reason.

OK, so I had captured these some days back. You can clearly see only a .032 (later adjustments made this ,016) V difference between non-AVX and AVX losd.
I didn't do anything special to get this

AIDA64 64 All (CPU, FPU, Memory, cache)

aid64_all.JPG 340k .JPG file

P95 V28.2 1344k

4_2_adp_p95_v28_2.JPG 467k .JPG file

AIDA64 CPU only:

aida64_cpu_only.JPG 326k .JPG file

P95 V25.11 (no AVX):

4_2_adp_p95_v25_11.JPG 395k .JPG file

Quote who you're responding to, because I'm confused.

 

If you're talking to me, a small jump is measured in BF4 and x264 and basically every single software that uses the CPU 100%. Chess doesn't use AVX2. BF3 most likely doesn't. Blunt 100% load ups load voltage. Aida64 CPU only is cooler than BF3 in my testing. 

 

If your entire argument is, AVX loads ups voltage a wee bit more than normal loads, it doesn't matter in actuality. More stressful programs want more voltage and get hotter, that's hardly surprising at all. It's not like we have a program that runs 60C but levies 1.6v Vcore and boom, CPU dies, or we have a program that sucks 0.1v+ on manual. There is no concern from a safety or even an overclocking perspective. I'm not ditching my overclock because Linpack wants 0.015v more than Bf3.


Edited by Darkwizzie - 3/8/14 at 10:50pm
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post #10895 of 19580
I am referring to both of you. Your dogma is that you should not stress test with AVX and adaptive mode (you say this in your first post) and I don't think that is a given.. I think you need to stress test using AVX if your goal is to run fully stable in adaptive or offset (rather than fixed voltage).

@jjack I am saying quit being such a jerk, here you go...
post #10896 of 19580
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneO View Post

I am referring to both of you. Your dogma is that you should not stress test with AVX and adaptive mode (you say this in your first post) and I don't think that is a given.. I think you need to stress test using AVX if your goal is to run fully stable in adaptive or offset (rather than fixed voltage).

@jjack I am saying quit being such a jerk, here you go...

If you want to throttle at 1.25v or under, be my guest. I failed Linpack at max with 1.25v due to temps on manual. On manual. Let's assume 0.1v hike, that means throttle at 1.15v. What kind of OC will you get with 1.15v? Not a whole lot. And some people in the past called my D14 "magical" for its low temps. 

 

We're back to the whole 'If you want to be FULLY stable you really ought to do this or that...' Yeah, well, that's your dogma. Stability is relative. How long do you run until it's "stable" for that test? That's right, somebody has to decide. The entire process is guess and check. I've gone through so many stupid arguments over this, I won't even go any further. This isn't rhetoric or said for dramatic effect, I'm being literal. It's like beating a dead horse and then ripping off the body parts and beating that up.

 

About the 0.1v hike being necessary because the CPU demands it, that's simply assumption. You think Intel would do this and that. Many stress test provides such a high hike in Vcore under adaptive load. I've been Prime stable on 4.5. On override. And I would not be stable on adaptive due to thermal throttling. But wait a minute... Say that Prime 27.9 has AVX and the 0.1v hike is necessary for stability doesn't that mean starving the CPU of the 0.1v boost mean I'd see some level of instability? Some level being a gross understatement. But it goes further than that. Adaptive gives the CPU more voltage. Doesn't that by its very nature make the CPU more stable? Are we arguing that giving the CPU 0.1v+ decreases CPU stability? Because it's like saying a CPU is 1.35v stable, therefore it's 1.25v stable. Not necessarily true. But if it's 1.25v stable, it's very likely 1.35v stable. The first approach is what happens if you stress on adaptive, the latter if you did on manual. So as far as I can tell, it's harder to pass on manual than on adaptive.

 

You're just saying something is so without real evidence. But Intel made it this way so there must be a reason... that is akin to saying, delidding is pointless because the gap in the glue is on purpose. Intel is one of the most advanced technology companies in the world and they can't get a glue right? Obviously they can, so it must be a reason. You're saying that to truly know stability you must pass AVX on adaptive, which is also pure assumption. You have not and obviously cannot prove this, because I have not done so and I'm dead stable, synthetic Prime stable on manual, on this setting. My own case alone disproves your assertion. Sure, you might argue that it sure helps to stress on adaptive because it roots out instability if it exists but again 1) I've already stated, you're basically saying pumping extra 0.1v+ to the CPU is going to make it less stable 2) There isn't a widespread issue of OCs getting unstable once they start using adaptive, or simply because they did not pass AVX under adaptive (Probably because nobody does that, therefore meaning practically every OC so far refutes your point) 3) Even if you pass 1 and 2, the thermal hurdle alone is enough to turn this into a dead end, causing this method to be unfeasible.

 

This thread has closing up on 11,000 posts. Do you know how many times I've had this kind of conversation before? A person that is willing to seriously argue this point is already beyond debating. I'm not responding to you on this topic any further unless you provide something that totally blows my mind. Unlikely, because as I said, 11,000 posts. There is always the option to make your own guide if you're inclined. I'll leave this alone while I'm still civil. This is for your benefit and for my benefit.


Edited by Darkwizzie - 3/8/14 at 11:24pm
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post #10897 of 19580
My 4770k isnt even going to 4.3Ghz, and now I built a pc for my friend with a 4670k. With a hyper 212 evo cooler. I am now running it at 4.7Ghz with 1.27v. Temps at 55 degrees running x264! It seems like this cpu is a monster!! Extremly low temps with that cooler?? Better then my phantek cooler in my 4770k build.

Maye I will change cpu with him, he wouldnt notice tongue.gif
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post #10898 of 19580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akehage View Post

My 4770k isnt even going to 4.3Ghz, and now I built a pc for my friend with a 4670k. With a hyper 212 evo cooler. I am now running it at 4.7Ghz with 1.27v. Temps at 55 degrees running x264! It seems like this cpu is a monster!! Extremly low temps with that cooler?? Better then my phantek cooler in my 4770k build.

Maye I will change cpu with him, he wouldnt notice tongue.gif

Sounds awesome - if temps are really low, make sure it's benching the right scores wink.gif
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post #10899 of 19580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

Sounds awesome - if temps are really low, make sure it's benching the right scores wink.gif

Ill post a screenshot, the reading in hw is slightly different from my 4770k, it seems to read vrin as vcore? I am not even done yet, Ill think I can reach 4.8-4.9 maybe on this one. Life is unfair tongue.gif


just bsod and temps where up slighly more (65). But still a nice one this I think.
Edited by Akehage - 3/9/14 at 1:05am
Haswell Kit
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 4770K Asus Maximus VI Gene Asus GTX 780 3GB GU Direct 2 Kingston 16GB XMP Beast Series 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
SSD, Intel 180GB Phantek PH-TC14PE Windows 8.1 Dell S2740L 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech K520 650W Fractal R4 Design Logitech G500S 
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Haswell Kit
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel 4770K Asus Maximus VI Gene Asus GTX 780 3GB GU Direct 2 Kingston 16GB XMP Beast Series 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
SSD, Intel 180GB Phantek PH-TC14PE Windows 8.1 Dell S2740L 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Logitech K520 650W Fractal R4 Design Logitech G500S 
Mouse Pad
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post #10900 of 19580
Left everything on auto (OC settings) and set turbo 44x , uncore @ 34x (which runs 40x). Extreme LLC.

44x = 1.350v normal apps - games
44x = 1.422v Prime95 / LinX / IBT

8 hours prime95 stable. Loving the idle voltage clocks, setting 85% minimum processor state gives me 1.172v @ 3ghz idle which is prefect for a power machine.

Gaming PC
(15 items)
 
Dell M6400 ($90)
(14 items)
 
HTC 10
(9 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 4690K (Delidded) MSI Z97 MPOWER AC MAX EVGA 980 Ti Hybrid  2x CMY16GX3M2A2400C11R 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
A-DATA SP900 2x ST2000DM001-1ER164 ASMedia® ASM1061 (External) swiftech h320 
OSMonitorMonitorPower
Stripped Win 10 x64 15063 *M* SAMSUNG LS24F350 *S* LG 22MP48HQ Corsair RM850w 
CaseMouseAudio
Corsair Obsidian 750D Corsair Harpoon RGB Fiio E7 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core 2 Duo P8700 Dell 076V94 (Intel Q43) Quadro FX 2700M 2x Samsung M471B5773CHS-CH9 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
WDC WD2500BJKT-75F4T0 TOSHIBA MQ01ACF032 HT-DT-ST DVD +-RW GS20N 2x Heat-pipe-sink + fans 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win 10 x64 15063 Super Lite Edition 1440x900 @ 100hz Dell + Numpad 95w 
Mouse Pad
Dell Touchpad 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Qualcomm Snapdragon 820 MSM8996 [OC] Adreno 530 2x 2GB LPDDR4 32 GB eMMC Flash 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Passive Android 7.0 2.51.617.1 Super LCD 5: 2560x1440 (565 PPI) Sony Xperia Keyboard 
Power
3,000 mAh Battery 
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Gaming PC
(15 items)
 
Dell M6400 ($90)
(14 items)
 
HTC 10
(9 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 4690K (Delidded) MSI Z97 MPOWER AC MAX EVGA 980 Ti Hybrid  2x CMY16GX3M2A2400C11R 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
A-DATA SP900 2x ST2000DM001-1ER164 ASMedia® ASM1061 (External) swiftech h320 
OSMonitorMonitorPower
Stripped Win 10 x64 15063 *M* SAMSUNG LS24F350 *S* LG 22MP48HQ Corsair RM850w 
CaseMouseAudio
Corsair Obsidian 750D Corsair Harpoon RGB Fiio E7 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Core 2 Duo P8700 Dell 076V94 (Intel Q43) Quadro FX 2700M 2x Samsung M471B5773CHS-CH9 
Hard DriveHard DriveOptical DriveCooling
WDC WD2500BJKT-75F4T0 TOSHIBA MQ01ACF032 HT-DT-ST DVD +-RW GS20N 2x Heat-pipe-sink + fans 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win 10 x64 15063 Super Lite Edition 1440x900 @ 100hz Dell + Numpad 95w 
Mouse Pad
Dell Touchpad 
CPUGraphicsRAMHard Drive
Qualcomm Snapdragon 820 MSM8996 [OC] Adreno 530 2x 2GB LPDDR4 32 GB eMMC Flash 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
Passive Android 7.0 2.51.617.1 Super LCD 5: 2560x1440 (565 PPI) Sony Xperia Keyboard 
Power
3,000 mAh Battery 
  hide details  
Reply
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