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Haswell Overclocking Guide [With Statistics] - Page 1123

post #11221 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneO View Post

I agree it varies, but it must be by processor. The FIVR controls the core voltages with load, so I don't see how the board can affect it.
Also, just because a board doesn't support adaptive voltage doesn't mean it is not available from the chip.

If you can convince me how a motherboard can control the core voltage that the Intel FIVR controls...

From the Intel Developers Forum:

http://hwbot.org/news/9347_intel_haswell_overclocking_fully_disclosed_theory_for_core_i7_4770k/

http://wccftech.com/idf-2013-intel-details-haswell-microarchitecture-overclocking-features-4th-generation-hd-graphics-core/

It clearly is Haswell from the above links.

The board must be able to control it or you wouldn't be able to use a manual voltage. Likewise all the other voltages that are controlled on-chip, like Vring. I don't know the mechanism, but the chip obviously gets some kind of instructions from the board.
post #11222 of 19539
Quick question. what does a OS restart indicate while stress testing? (no BSOD record) VCCIN? Vring?Vcore?
post #11223 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsemama1956 View Post

Got a new cooler, an NH-U14S so I can finally run atleast 4.5Ghz. 10 passes of the x264 test only hit 62 degrees, though will be running it for awhile overnight even though I've already tested on my h60. The h60 would hit mid 80's to mid 90's so it's a significant change. 1.265 vcore and 1.175 uncore for 4.2Ghz.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zahix View Post

Quick question. what does a OS restart indicate while stress testing? (no BSOD record) VCCIN? Vring?Vcore?

Vcore/VRIN. It will likely show up in bluescreenview even if it didn't throw a bluescreen
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post #11224 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by angelotti View Post



I’m on adaptive now (on asrock) because it allows me to drop the max turbo voltage (vcore) to 1.265 for the 42 multi (it allows the voltage to spike to 1.310 very rarely on x264 and only for 1 or 2 seconds) On manual i needed 1.280V.
The VID stays at 0.707 for 800MHz, 0.785V at 1400MHz and so on...

Vid on adaptive is decided by the CPU, that’s true.
I think that on the boards where there is no adaptive setting, Auto stands for it. I have both (adaptive and auto) and they both do the same thing: Adaptive

Adaptive is just an instruction for the cpu saying: do whatever you want. But if you set Adaptive plus Vcore manually (turbo max ex: 1.250V) the cpu does what it wants until it loads to 100% and/or passes 3.4 GHz and then it uses the Vcore that i set (1.250). (and when it detects AVX or synthetic tests it ads extra... ~0.050 in my case)
One of the reasons why they act differently on various boards might be that the board might change some default values (usually for auto settings) once you set it on adaptive.

I should give an example.
If (from defaults) i raise the multi to 39 an leave voltage to adaptive, i crash on heavy load.
But, under the same situation, on an asus board someone might pass because upon setting the voltage on adaptive and raising the multi, the board manufacturer programmed the board to also change the Offset (to add, say, 0.050V) while still showing AUTO as a value.
In this situation if you override the offset with 0V, then it will crash just like mine.
Therefore, the adaptive functionality is not different. The CPU still “listens” to other settings while on adaptive (if there are any)
Adaptive does not mean “set it and forget it”.
post #11225 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

The board must be able to control it or you wouldn't be able to use a manual voltage. Likewise all the other voltages that are controlled on-chip, like Vring. I don't know the mechanism, but the chip obviously gets some kind of instructions from the board.

Well that doesn't necessarily follow, the links I posted above say there are 4 override modes. One of them is manual . The chip controls the vid on all of the others.

Here is a link to the full Intel talk at IDF. Look at page 19.

https://intel.activeevents.com/sf13/connect/fileDownload/session/543414C33742EFFC2F7E25430877AB49/SF13_AIOS001_100.pdf.

EDIT:

All the instruction it may need for adaptive is "Use adaptive, here is the target Voltage for 100% load."
Edited by GeneO - 3/18/14 at 4:25pm
post #11226 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneO View Post

Well that doesn't necessarily follow, the links I posted above say there are 4 override modes. One of them is manual . The chip controls the vid on all of the others.

Here is a link to the full Intel talk at IDF. Look at page 19.

https://intel.activeevents.com/sf13/connect/fileDownload/session/543414C33742EFFC2F7E25430877AB49/SF13_AIOS001_100.pdf.

EDIT:

All the instruction it may need for adaptive is "Use adaptive, here is the target Voltage for 100% load."

There's a VID table on the chip. How the mobo manufacturers choose to supplement that table is up to them. We don't have any idea either way what the mobo manufacturers are doing.

It would be neat to test the same CPU in a Gigabyte board and an Asus board under Adaptive and see if the behavior is the same or different.
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post #11227 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneO View Post

Well that doesn't necessarily follow, the links I posted above say there are 4 override modes. One of them is manual . The chip controls the vid on all of the others.

Here is a link to the full Intel talk at IDF. Look at page 19.

https://intel.activeevents.com/sf13/connect/fileDownload/session/543414C33742EFFC2F7E25430877AB49/SF13_AIOS001_100.pdf.

EDIT:

All the instruction it may need for adaptive is "Use adaptive, here is the target Voltage for 100% load."

Then maybe I'm confused about what you are asking/saying. You said "The FIVR controls the core voltages with load, so I don't see how the board can affect it", but it clearly can, using manual voltage and using offset. Your own links show that to be the case. Now I agree that the motherboard can't control the VID, as that is programmed into the chip itself (as I said before) but that's not the same as not being able to control the voltage.

As for adaptive, maybe the board can control it and maybe it can't, but given that implementation of that mode tends to vary, I'd say it's hard to say for sure.

This is why I said people need to be careful about interchanging VID, voltage, and Vcore. It kind of sounds like when you said voltage in your earlier post you meant VID, since it would be true that the motherboard doesn't control VID, but voltage is a different thing.
Edited by Forceman - 3/18/14 at 4:38pm
post #11228 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

Then maybe I'm confused about what you are asking/saying. You said "The FIVR controls the core voltages with load, so I don't see how the board can affect it", but it clearly can, using manual voltage and using offset. Your own links show that to be the case. Now I agree that the motherboard can't control the VID, as that is programmed into the chip itself (as I said before) but that's not the same as not being able to control the voltage.

As for adaptive, maybe the board can control it and maybe it can't, but given that implementation of that mode tends to vary, I'd say it's hard to say for sure.

This is why I said people need to be careful about interchanging VID, voltage, and Vcore. It kind of sounds like when you said voltage in your earlier post you meant VID, since it would be true that the motherboard doesn't control VID, but voltage is a different thing.

I was responding to the conjecture that boards implement adaptive differently. The chip FIVR has to control the voltage based on frequency, load and temperature - it has to respond to changes almost instantaneously. So the motherboard can have little control over that. The link I provided also called adaptive mode 'interpolative". So if the BIOS just supplied a target full load voltage for adaptive, I think that is enough for the processor to interpolate the voltage to apply between the VID at 3.9 GHz to full load. In that case, how would it vary from motherboard to motherboard when all the BIOS is doing is supplying it with a target voltage? That is all I am saying, and I expect that is how it probably works more or less. But I could be wrong smile.gif
post #11229 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by coelacanth View Post

There's a VID table on the chip. How the mobo manufacturers choose to supplement that table is up to them. We don't have any idea either way what the mobo manufacturers are doing.

It would be neat to test the same CPU in a Gigabyte board and an Asus board under Adaptive and see if the behavior is the same or different.

I am pretty sure the motherboards cannot supplement that table. They can specify an offset be applied to all values in the table, or tell the processor to ignore it and apply a manual voltage,
post #11230 of 19539
Thread Starter 

This is over my head but my question is... isn't it all down to what motherboard vendors decide to do? If we know that all Asus mobos with Haswell CPUs have adaptive that functions and does something positive, and all Gigabyte boards don't have the option and don't need it to get the same benefit, and all MSI boards has adaptive setting that doesn't do anything but has a way of achieving what Gigabyte has without adaptive, for practical overclocking purposes don't we already know all we need to know? Or is this analysis done for curiosity?

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