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Haswell Overclocking Guide [With Statistics] - Page 1136

post #11351 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarlet-Tech View Post

I am trying to understand all of the original post, and have moved over to manual voltage rather than adaptive, and to get to 4.6 "stable" it seems that I had to go from 1.37 Volts up to 1.4. The only thing that makes me uncomfortable is that it doesn't lower the voltage when I idle. Is there anything I can do to make that better?

No, I don't have a month to read through all of the previous posts, so I apologize if that has been asked.

Next, at 4.5 I am stable at 1.315 Volts, and seem to be fairly stable with 4.6 at 1.4v... Is it normal or reasonable to have that big of a jump per 100mhz? Again, sorry as I am just getting into the manual overclocking.

Here are the things that can potentially effect whether your idle voltage drops:

1) Enable all C-States (C6 and C7 if your PSU is capable)
2) Make sure your power plan in Windows is set to Balanced, not Performance

Some monitors will grab VID, some will grab Vcore. Make sure you're looking at the right one. Vcore will change. On Manual, VID won't.

Another thing you probably want to do is make sure frequency drops too by enabling EIST (which it sounds like you already have).
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post #11352 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by coelacanth View Post

Here are the things that can potentially effect whether your idle voltage drops:

1) Enable all C-States (C6 and C7 if your PSU is capable)
2) Make sure your power plan in Windows is set to Balanced, not Performance

Some monitors will grab VID, some will grab Vcore. Make sure you're looking at the right one. Vcore will change. On Manual, VID won't.

Another thing you probably want to do is make sure frequency drops too by enabling EIST (which it sounds like you already have).

The main thing is utilizing the downclock/downvolt and haswell power saving features requires the following:

EIST and Speedstep enabled

C states do not havto be enabled and imo should be disabled if running an all SSD system or a hybrid SSD/os with HDD combo. Note: leave enbaaled if using sleep mode etc

Also offset/adaptive mode needs to be applied as well to allow the vcore and core/uncore to downclock effectively...
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post #11353 of 19539
Thread Starter 

Once again, depends on mobo. No C states on my mobo = no Voltage drop. EIST on, C states OFF = No voltage drop OR multiplier drop. Both on = Voltage drop and multiplier drop.

 

Idle power and clock speed settings vary from mobo to mobo. To prevent confusion, let's begin each post about this by saying which mobo vendor we are talking about.

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post #11354 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post

Once again, depends on mobo. No C states on my mobo = no Voltage drop. EIST on, C states OFF = No voltage drop OR multiplier drop. Both on = Voltage drop and multiplier drop.

Idle power and clock speed settings vary from mobo to mobo. To prevent confusion, let's begin each post about this by saying which mobo vendor we are talking about.

I agree aout the lable the mobo being specified

however ive used all the board basically on the z87 lineup and I don't see how c states kills the ability for the cpu to downstate itself...

the only reason I could see this not working is if someone isn't using offset or adaptive.

this link below shows the results of c states off vs not...its only about 5w...and imo gives better gaming experience disabled.

http://www.legitreviews.com/what-enabling-c6c7-low-power-states-do-on-the-core-i7-4770k-haswell-cpu_2217/3


On our Windows 8 test platform we were able to quickly see the benefits of running with the C6 and C7 power states enabled. We found that with C6/C7 disabled that the system would idle between 23.7 and 24.1 Watts, but with them enabled we were seeing between 20.5 to 21.2 Watts. Both numbers are impressive as you have to keep in mind that the whole system is being measures here with a Kill-A-Watt power meter at the wall outlet. The Intel Core i7-4770K 3.5GHz quad-core processor might be the fastest LGA1150 processor that money can buy, but it also happens to be really efficient and by enabled C6/C7 low power states we were able to get ~3 Watts or nearly 13% power savings at idle!
Read more at http://www.legitreviews.com/what-enabling-c6c7-low-power-states-do-on-the-core-i7-4770k-haswell-cpu_2217/3#thWrDu1TIeqCsQ0Q.99




With the Intel Desktop Board DZ87KL-T75K running optimal settings, meaning C6/C7 power states are disabled, the Intel Core i7-4770K was bouncing around 36-38C with the average being 37C. The Intel Extreme Tuning Utility shows that the CPU Total TDP is 5 Watts. Many people have complained about how hot Intel Haswell processors run, so it will be interesting to see if enabling C6/C7 will lower processor temperatures at idle.

Read more at http://www.legitreviews.com/what-enabling-c6c7-low-power-states-do-on-the-core-i7-4770k-haswell-cpu_2217/3#thWrDu1TIeqCsQ0Q.99


Sure enough! By enabling ‘Lowest CPU Idle Power Setting’ in the BIOS the C6/C7 power states helped lower the CPU Core Temperature down to 34-36C with an average of 35C. This is a solid two degree Celsius temperature drop, which is rather impressive. Notice that the CPU Total TDP is now just 2W instead of 5W. This also coincides with the ~3 Watt performance difference that we noted at the wall.
Read more at http://www.legitreviews.com/what-enabling-c6c7-low-power-states-do-on-the-core-i7-4770k-haswell-cpu_2217/3#thWrDu1TIeqCsQ0Q.99
Edited by FractinJex - 3/21/14 at 1:57pm
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post #11355 of 19539
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FractinJex View Post


I agree aout the lable the mobo being specified

however ive used all the board basically on the z87 lineup and I don't see how c states kills the ability for the cpu to downstate itself...

the only reason I could see this not working is if someone isn't using offset or adaptive.

this link below shows the results of c states off vs not...its only about 5w...and imo gives better gaming experience disabled.

http://www.legitreviews.com/what-enabling-c6c7-low-power-states-do-on-the-core-i7-4770k-haswell-cpu_2217/3

I used adaptive + C states off and voltage did not drop. Override + Cstates on makes the most sense. Not only do I get voltage drop that actually works, I also prevent myself from nuking the CPU if I accidentally run Prime on adaptive. I get the benefit of both worlds with none of the down sides.

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post #11356 of 19539
well idk bro lol I give up on trying to clarify stuff lol....seems like everyone is doing the opposite of what im doing...btw enabling c states is fine but I would siable C1E if you use a SSD.

ill give up for now but...imo the way ive been clocking haswell seems to produce more favorable results thanim seeing out of most even with crap chips.

EIST and C-States are not mutually inclusive. You can turn the one or the other off at any time. Leaving them on won't hurt your overclocking. C-States have no effect on overclocking at all. For EIST you should be using offset/adaptive mode otherwise there's not much point to it.
I will tell you what both will hurt though and that is DPC Latency. If your system suffers from DPC Latency issues or you rely on real time/minimal latency applications, then both or one should be turned off as they cause high DPC spikes.
Edited by FractinJex - 3/21/14 at 2:27pm
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post #11357 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by FractinJex View Post

The main thing is utilizing the downclock/downvolt and haswell power saving features requires the following:

EIST and Speedstep enabled

C states do not havto be enabled and imo should be disabled if running an all SSD system or a hybrid SSD/os with HDD combo. Note: leave enbaaled if using sleep mode etc

Also offset/adaptive mode needs to be applied as well to allow the vcore and core/uncore to downclock effectively...

No not at all. There are a lot of us running Manual everything idling at .016v or lower on core, .003v or lower on uncore (C-States enabled, EIST enabled).

I run an SSD system and many of those old-time SSD gremlins are gone. The only change I make (and I'm not sure if it's ever necessary), is to set hard drives never to turn off in the Windows Power Plan. SSDs use a lot less power so it doesn't really matter if they never turn off.
Edited by coelacanth - 3/21/14 at 2:40pm
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post #11358 of 19539
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FractinJex View Post

well idk bro lol I give up on trying to clarify stuff lol....seems like everyone is doing the opposite of what im doing...btw enabling c states is fine but I would siable C1E if you use a SSD.

ill give up for now but...imo the way ive been clocking haswell seems to produce more favorable results thanim seeing out of most even with crap chips.

EIST and C-States are not mutually inclusive. You can turn the one or the other off at any time. Leaving them on won't hurt your overclocking. C-States have no effect on overclocking at all. For EIST you should be using offset/adaptive mode otherwise there's not much point to it.
I will tell you what both will hurt though and that is DPC Latency. If your system suffers from DPC Latency issues or you rely on real time/minimal latency applications, then both or one should be turned off as they cause high DPC spikes.

I don't understand what you're saying.

 

The way you're clocking Haswell is better than mine? Like how?

 

I've test my board for a very long period of time. EIST ON + Cstates OFF = No change. EIST OFF + Cstates ON = voltage drop on idle. EIST ON + Cstates ON = Voltage and clock speed drop on idle. I see no reason to care about dropping clock speed on idle. Adaptive has absolutely no effect on either idle voltage draw or idle clock speed when testing in conjunction with different EIST and Cstate settings.

 

Unless you tested MSI g45, I don't see why there's even a conflict here. We have different motherboards. Adaptive serves no positive function on this board. I've been crazy enough to sit in front of the computer using up hours and hours making sure this is the case. This is against my intuition so I double checked, triple checked this.

 

I don't understand why you seem to be so sure about what my motherboard does when we have different motherboards. Gigabyte doesn't even have adaptive and can do the same things I do most likely in the same way.

 

When did I say Cstates have anything to do with overclocking?

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Undelwalt (2017)
(29 items)
 
 
Celapaleis (2013)
(16 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
7600k @ 5.197/1.392 1.392v z170 Asus Hero EVGA 1080ti SC Black (2100/6250) x2 8gb GSkill Trident Z 3600 @ 3804 15-15-15-32-2T 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 950 Pro 512gb (Undelwalt) WD Red 2tb (Pack Yak II) Seagate Expansion Drive 5tb (Phoenix Down II) 3x560mm HardwareLabs Nemesis GTX 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
XPSC Raystorm Pro Watercool Heatkiller 1080ti Full Cover Waterblock EK XTOP Revo Dual D5 (Serial, PWM, v4) EK ZMT (1/2 - 3/4 ID OD) 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
14xEK ACF (Compression Fittings) EK x4 250 (v2) Distilled Water + PT Nuke (Copper Sulphate) 24x140mm Silent Wings 3 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Pro 64bit Catleap 27 Inch 2560x1440 IPS 60hz Display Coolermaster Storm Trigger (Brown Switches) EVGA P2 1000w 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair Air 540 Logitech G Pro Tek Syndicate "Raze the World" Desk Mat O2 + Odac by Mayflower Electronics (Rev A) 
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Sennheiser HD 800 2xKrk Rokit 6 G2 Blue Yeti (Grey) Rode PSA-1 Arm 
Other
Aquaero 6 LT + Aluminum Heatsink 
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i5 6600k Delid @ 4.848/4.848 Asus z170 Hero MSI GTX 980ti @ 1499/4082 1.25v/134% Power 2 x 8gb Gskills Ripjaws V 3131 16-16-16-32 
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post #11359 of 19539
Several things to clear up....your cpou cannot idle down to 0.003v im sorry this is impossible...if your getting this reading in cpuz you need to run the older version as this is wrong...pretty much the lowest the cpu can idle is around 0.699v

and no I don't need to educate myself on haswell especially as ive overclocked way more haswells than several of you combined and have pushed clocks way higher than you all...

Also Darkwizzie im not hating at all man...your more knowledgable than most and more than me in general on haswells....

I disagree though that you think your board is different as far as bios's go and whar the poiwer phases are doing...

just because a motherboard works doesn't mean it works correctly..you could have a phasing issue...ive seen alklk types of issues with boards...

I also onw a z87 maximus formula...I know how the asus boards work as well as asrock...

but you guys doy uor thing...sorry I want boiher anymore.
Edited by FractinJex - 3/21/14 at 3:32pm
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post #11360 of 19539
Well my third 4670k seems to be dead on average. 4.5ghz @1.355v. The great wall of intel appears just before 4.6. It still beter than the chip it replaces in my sons rig.
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