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Haswell Overclocking Guide [With Statistics] - Page 1139

post #11381 of 19539
The one you posted is here on page 511..
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post #11382 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by error-id10t View Post

The one you posted is here on page 511..

Thanks, took a bit to find it - I use 30 posts per page so only 380 pages for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

I couldn't find a time when the multimeter matched HWInfo or CPU-Z exactly, since I couldn't see HWInfo while I was holding the probes on the motherboard, but here's a HWInfo shot that shows the mins, and two pictures of the multimeter. One shows negative because I had the probes reversed.



post #11383 of 19539
Thread Starter 

So it looks like the 0.1v and lower voltage is legit and Jacks was wrong?

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post #11384 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneO View Post

Thanks, +rep.

I rolled back from 1402 to 1203 because instability in 1402. I have gotten mine back stable under 1203, I might try 804 in he future.

There are some things that won't revert back (like Intel Management Engine). What was the highest version of the BIOS you had updated to? What is your version of Intel Management Engine now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zahix View Post

Awesome, +REP. I'm going to try the 804 today and check if I get some good benefit on my chip. I'm curious what was your previous Bios version before downgrading?

Also, are you having any issues with the 804 so far?

So far, no issues with 804. I frankly haven't had much time to check everything out, so something could be off and I might be unaware. That said, the lower VID seems stable, which is a good sign. I'll run proper stress testing soon for the sake of science, followed by a new attempt at 46x.
I had previously been using the 1002 bios, although I'd never had any issues with it, the allure of lower VID was too great rolleyes.gif
And GeneO, even after some googling I haven't figured out how to check the IME version...if you can direct me as to how, I'll gladly look and see what it says.
post #11385 of 19539
I thought we already had the discussion on this .1v C6/C7 idle state back when I was trying to figure out how it worked. With C6/C7 forced on on my board, voltages drop to ~.1v or lower at idle.

Guys, EIST = Enhanced Speedstep, meaning it'll give the CPU only as much power as it needs and only as long as the processor is allowed to go to a lower power state. This means, EIST on and C-States off, voltages and multipliers won't drop. However, with C-States on with EIST off, voltages and multipliers will fluctuate between max speed and min speed ( say, 4.5ghz or 800mhz, nothing in between )

Now, with both EIST and C-States on, you'll get speeds of say, 4.5, 2.4, 1.6, .8 Ghz, etc. And your ultra low voltage idle.

Hope this helps.
post #11386 of 19539
Thread Starter 

Looks like with a multimeter reading, if it is accurate at such low voltages, would bust any misconceptions about how low idle voltages go. It'll just be very funny to see how sure people are while being wrong at the same time. The more sure they were, the funner it will be. :thumbsups

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Undelwalt (2017)
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CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
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CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
14xEK ACF (Compression Fittings) EK x4 250 (v2) Distilled Water + PT Nuke (Copper Sulphate) 24x140mm Silent Wings 3 
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post #11387 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by brutus090 View Post


So far, no issues with 804. I frankly haven't had much time to check everything out, so something could be off and I might be unaware. That said, the lower VID seems stable, which is a good sign. I'll run proper stress testing soon for the sake of science, followed by a new attempt at 46x.
I had previously been using the 1002 bios, although I'd never had any issues with it, the allure of lower VID was too great rolleyes.gif
And GeneO, even after some googling I haven't figured out how to check the IME version...if you can direct me as to how, I'll gladly look and see what it says.

Hi,
The ME version is listed on the main page of the BIOS.
post #11388 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

Thanks, took a bit to find it - I use 30 posts per page so only 380 pages for me.


This experiment needs a little further attention.
First, why didn’t you use the 200mV dial? It would have been more appropriate (possibly more precise as well)
Secondly, does your MB have voltage check points for all cpu cores?

I know everybody here has a different view over VID and Vcore, but since haswell, the actual vcore is no longer determined by the MB, it’s determined by the FIVR which is inside the cpu now. I can’t for the life of me find the forum where a member posted his email exchange with asus support asking why he has different vcore reading from his previous MB (from other manufacturer) with the same cpu. And the asus rep said that the cpu now only reports the VID to the MB but not the vcore and that is implemented differently (a chip of some sorts i assume that determines not reads the vcore) from one manufacturer to the next, and that the asus one is proprietary.
Now, i personally had asrock support saying one thing in an email and “sorry, it’s the other way around” in the next one. So it’s not uncommon for a support technician to make mistakes, but it matches other similar explanations.

Here is a link on the WHiNFO forum where the creator of the application says basically the same thing..
http://www.hwinfo.com/forum/Thread-Solved-HWiNFO64-and-Haswell-Systems?pid=4177#pid4177

There was also another forum where in an asrock thread users were complaining that this feature was only implemented on OC formula and Etreme9 but not on the ones below.

Therefore this is not a ‘done and closed’ matter. Maybe if someone finds a intel or MB manufacturer’s doc (pdf).. that would clear the air.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coelacanth View Post

We're talking about C6 and C7.
Straight from the Intel Data Sheet:

"C6 - Execution cores in this state save their architectural state before removing core voltage."
"Core C6 State - Individual threads of a core can enter the C6 state by initiating a P_LVL3 I/O read or an MWAIT(C6) instruction. Before entering core C6 state, the core will save its architectural state to a dedicated SRAM. Once complete, a core will have its voltage reduced to zero volts."
"In package C6 state all cores have saved their architectural state and have had their core voltages reduced to zero volts."

So the Intel engineers are also wrong, right? lachen.gif


I’ve checked the washell sheet and it does say what you posted. But!, is that the case for idle as well, or just sleep/hibernation?
The document doesn’t specify which means it should be idle too...
post #11389 of 19539
I used the setting I used because I was also checking the load voltage at the same time, to be sure it matched up there as well (it did). And no, the board doesn't have checkpoints for each core - I've never heard of any board having that because as far as I know there is only 1 possible Vcore at a time. CPU cores can and are power gated to 0 volts, but the FIVR (and motherboard previously) are not providing a per-core Vcore. My intent when I took those pictures was not to measure an accurate Vcore, but merely to show that the software readings roughly matched the hardware measurements, and that the Vcore in C6/7 (whether it is actual or effective) could be lower than the 0.7V seen by some monitoring programs while the chip was in C3.

And for the VID / Vcore question, the motherboard check points are reading [at least what it thinks is] Vcore, and not VID, because I use manual mode and the VID never changes while the multimeter readings do. It may be some estimated Vcore instead of an actual hard reading, but the point of testing it was to show that C6/7 does allow lower voltage (or possibly just power) than C3 alone. That's what I was testing for and it was conclusive - with C6/7 disabled the idle Vcore reading was 0.7ish volts.

C states are CPU idle states, S states are sleep states, so those Intel comments are clearly referencing idle and not sleep.
Edited by Forceman - 3/22/14 at 3:14am
post #11390 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneO View Post

Hi,
The ME version is listed on the main page of the BIOS.

doh.gif
9.0.22.1467 is what shows now (804 bios), and sadly I don't have a screenshot from before to compare it to.
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