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Haswell Overclocking Guide [With Statistics] - Page 1257

post #12561 of 19580
Quote:
Originally Posted by error-id10t View Post

That's screenshot is not under load right. It tells you the multipliers anyway (8-46)... 46 is of course the multi you set, change it in BIOS and of course it'll match it in CPU-Z. However, IMO this program is close to useless nowadays so I don't even bother with it.

Which screen shot are u referring to? If cpuz is useless are there any other programs that show the core speed besides bios?
post #12562 of 19580
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsx821 View Post


Which screen shot are u referring to? If cpuz is useless are there any other programs that show the core speed besides bios?

I already suggested HWinfo.

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post #12563 of 19580
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsx821 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vixo90 View Post


Search this thread for ‘asrock VID’ and ‘asrock Vcore’ for your Vcore related questions.

As for Vcore drop (energy savings), since your boards do not provide vcore reading, use :
- either ‘adaptive’ mode in bios
- or ‘override’ with all ‘C-states’ ON (C1e, C3, C6 and C7) leave ‘package c states support’ on auto
Both options amount to the same result.

All of this has been discussed previously (allot). Just do some thread searching, and when you found all the answers you need just ask someone with a high number of posts and rep points (or whatever they are) for confirmation, and you’re done!
Edited by angelotti - 5/16/14 at 3:55am
post #12564 of 19580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post

I already suggested HWinfo.

Sorry had a late night at the library.

I just dled Hwinfo. Here's a screenshot.

post #12565 of 19580
Quote:
Originally Posted by angelotti View Post


Search this thread for ‘asrock VID’ and ‘asrock Vcore’ for your Vcore related questions.

As for Vcore drop (energy savings), since your boards do not provide vcore reading, use :
- either ‘adaptive’ mode in bios
- or ‘override’ with all ‘C-states’ ON (C1e, C3, C6 and C7) leave ‘package c states support’ on auto
Both options amount to the same result.

All of this has been discussed previously (allot). Just do some thread searching, and when you found the all the answers you need just ask someone with a high number of posts and rep points (or whatever they are) for confirmation, and you’re done!

Thanks for response. Will look into it in the morning.
post #12566 of 19580
Use the sensors option.. better. Funny.. Asrock finally given you guys microcode 17, of course 19 is out by now.
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post #12567 of 19580
Quote:
Originally Posted by angelotti View Post


Search this thread for ‘asrock VID’ and ‘asrock Vcore’ for your Vcore related questions.

As for Vcore drop (energy savings), since your boards do not provide vcore reading, use :
- either ‘adaptive’ mode in bios
- or ‘override’ with all ‘C-states’ ON (C1e, C3, C6 and C7) leave ‘package c states support’ on auto
Both options amount to the same result.

All of this has been discussed previously (allot). Just do some thread searching, and when you found all the answers you need just ask someone with a high number of posts and rep points (or whatever they are) for confirmation, and you’re done!
Thanks for clearing that up - I will search the thread like you suggested and read about it, no time now tho.

I tested what you said, here is how it looks with the different options:
http://i.imgur.com/13oTVDj.jpg
^To the left; adaptive mode, lowering VID | To the right; override mode, VID locked all the time.

I cant see my vcore reading I guess, but you're saying its lowered with both options? Cstates are enabled on both screenshots.

What is preffered? Is having my VID locked (at ~1.354) gonna affect lifespan of my processor and power consumption? I rather use adaptive mode, but my media player bumps my VID (or vcore?) to like +0.1 (to 1.416) which can cause problems if i do heavy CPU tasks while running my media player.
post #12568 of 19580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vixo90 View Post

Thanks for clearing that up - I will search the thread like you suggested and read about it, no time now tho.

I tested what you said, here is how it looks with the different options:
http://i.imgur.com/13oTVDj.jpg
^To the left; adaptive mode, lowering VID | To the right; override mode, VID locked all the time.

I cant see my vcore reading I guess, but you're saying its lowered with both options? Cstates are enabled on both screenshots.

What is preffered? Is having my VID locked (at ~1.354) gonna affect lifespan of my processor and power consumption? I rather use adaptive mode, but my media player bumps my VID (or vcore?) to like +0.1 (to 1.416) which can cause problems if i do heavy CPU tasks while running my media player.

Override with c-states enabled is preferred for your VID (1.35x).
EDIT: If your PSU cannot support C6/C7 states, you might BSOD on idle or sleep/wake states.

About your voltages concerns (from previous pages)
expand sub-spoiler as well!
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

A little update on my previous post... Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by angelotti View Post


It's true that it's about frequency and not volts, but under full frequency (above stock 3.4/3.5GHz) the cores receive full voltage (as per the instruction: manual input V or offset V or adaptive V)..., unless otherwise implemented by the manufacturer. In my case, all i need for the voltage to drop (under adaptive) is EIST and balanced 'power plan' (or as you said, for high, drop the min state to 5%)
The 'c-states' only drop the voltage further but should not be required to drop the voltage 'at all'. I for one, also have a "cpu overclock fixed mode" setting in the bios, and if that is enabled, there will be no VID drop.

If your concern (iamkraine) is power saving, then you should not worry to much about this, since the difference between idle at full voltage and idle at 0.7V will be only 2-5 watts and further 2-4 watts if you have all 'c-states' on. The power drow from the mains increases with load (at a given freq and voltage)
You can check this yourself with a 'wattmeter', or a multimetter (with amp-metter clamp) using W = A × V (watt = amp × volt).

If the concern is over degradation, again, it will be insignificant at idle+full voltage versus idle+lower voltage. You need lots of amps (caused by load) for max degradation.
The idea is, for max degradation you need high amps (caused by heavy load) which increases with frequency (and obviously you also need higher voltage for higher freq in order not to crash) and all this also generates allot of heat.

degradation = high freq at heavy load + high voltage + heat
the lower any of the three, the less degradation will occur.

ex1: 4.2GHz@1.3V@80°C is less degrading than 4.6GHz@1.3V@80°C
ex2: 4.2GHz@1.2V@80°C is less degrading than 4.2GHz@1.3V@80°C (but the difference is not as big as in the previous example)
ex3: 4.6GHz@1.3V@70°C is less degrading than 4.6GHz@1.3V@90°C (this is pretty obvious)
ALL OF THE ABOVE AT LOAD

If we were to talk about killing the chip and not degradation, then it's as intel said: "voltage kills the chip not the heat"

I took the trouble to check again since on my last post i spoke from memory , and here are the results (all at idle):

C-States OFF (ALL of them)
~77W - EIST/off + Adaptive
~79W - EIST/off + Manual
~57W - EIST/on + Adaptive (very close to C-States ON)
~61W - EIST/on + Manual

C-States ON (ALL of them)
~55W - EIST/off + Adaptive
~55W - EIST/off + Manual
~55W - EIST/on + Adaptive
~55W - EIST/on + Manual
(there were spikes to 57 every 2-3 seconds)

As you can see, with 'C-States' ON, there is no appreciable difference between adaptive vs manual or speedstep on/off.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

Thanks, took a bit to find it - I use 30 posts per page so only 380 pages for me.


This experiment needs a little further attention.
First, why didn’t you use the 200mV dial? It would have been more appropriate (possibly more precise as well)
Secondly, does your MB have voltage check points for all cpu cores?

I know everybody here has a different view over VID and Vcore, but since haswell, the actual vcore is no longer determined by the MB, it’s determined by the FIVR which is inside the cpu now. I can’t for the life of me find the forum where a member posted his email exchange with asus support asking why he has different vcore reading from his previous MB (from other manufacturer) with the same cpu. And the asus rep said that the cpu now only reports the VID to the MB but not the vcore and that is implemented differently (a chip of some sorts i assume that determines not reads the vcore) from one manufacturer to the next, and that the asus one is proprietary.
Now, i personally had asrock support saying one thing in an email and “sorry, it’s the other way around” in the next one. So it’s not uncommon for a support technician to make mistakes, but it matches other similar explanations.

Here is a link on the WHiNFO forum where the creator of the application says basically the same thing..
http://www.hwinfo.com/forum/Thread-Solved-HWiNFO64-and-Haswell-Systems?pid=4177#pid4177

There was also another forum where in an asrock thread users were complaining that this feature was only implemented on OC formula and Etreme9 but not on the ones below.

Therefore this is not a ‘done and closed’ matter. Maybe if someone finds a intel or MB manufacturer’s doc (pdf).. that would clear the air.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coelacanth View Post

We're talking about C6 and C7.
Straight from the Intel Data Sheet:

"C6 - Execution cores in this state save their architectural state before removing core voltage."
"Core C6 State - Individual threads of a core can enter the C6 state by initiating a P_LVL3 I/O read or an MWAIT(C6) instruction. Before entering core C6 state, the core will save its architectural state to a dedicated SRAM. Once complete, a core will have its voltage reduced to zero volts."
"In package C6 state all cores have saved their architectural state and have had their core voltages reduced to zero volts."

So the Intel engineers are also wrong, right? lachen.gif


I’ve checked the washell sheet and it does say what you posted. But!, is that the case for idle as well, or just sleep/hibernation?
The document doesn’t specify which means it should be idle too...

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

I couldn't find a time when the multimeter matched HWInfo or CPU-Z exactly, since I couldn't see HWInfo while I was holding the probes on the motherboard, but here's a HWInfo shot that shows the mins, and two pictures of the multimeter. One shows negative because I had the probes reversed.




Edited by angelotti - 5/16/14 at 8:57am
post #12569 of 19580
I'm having problems with my system crashing when there is little to no stress/load and no problems when stress testing or gaming.. But when I just hang about on desktop or just do some light surfing my system often crashes. It has definately something to do with C-States and C1E, this much I've found out. I have an MSI Z87 G45 Motherboard (Seasonic G-650W PSU) and when I have C-State Package limit set to either C6/C7/C7s my PC crashes randomly on desktop if I have C1E "on". On the other hand, if i wanna keep C1E "on" I have to limit C-States to "C3".

Lowest Voltages and Power amounts are achieved with C1E off and C-states limited to C7 I've found so Im currently running with that. Although many sources claim C1E and C7 etc can be used together, that doesnt seem to be the case for me.

Can anyone clarify is this normal behavior?

http://youtu.be/-4OePNpOGs8?t=2m11s <- MSI Bios CPU features

- EDIT: **** all that, system just crashed again. It seems I cant hold my OC stable on idle with C6/C7/C7s enabled.. Works fine with C3 though.
Edited by hasukka - 5/16/14 at 12:16pm
post #12570 of 19580
I guess my chip being locked to 4.3 is bad for it. No one has any idea on how to get the frequency to drop? C states are enabled but no one on the MSI forums have any idea apparently.
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