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Haswell Overclocking Guide [With Statistics] - Page 127

post #1261 of 19603
Thread Starter 

I go to sleep and come back, 28 replies lol.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProKoN View Post

I dont mind being a crash test dummy!

Did you check out my guide? Im looking for feedback as well.

My only issue with your guide is p95. Since it is not validated for haswell. I also included a memory stability section and a "how to" enable low power modes

Thanks for being a valuble community member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anusha View Post

What exactly does this "Prime95 is not validated for Haswell" even mean? Shouldn't we be able to run any program with our CPU? If it is not validated means Prime95 doesn't check every part of the CPU, then fine. But I find Prime95 to be much stressful than all others. LinX/IBT is mostly for testing your cooling; Prime will crash if LinX crashes, but not the other way around.

Or is there something wrong with Prime95? A bug perhaps?

That's said, I've moved to XTU as well. But it is much lighter than Prime. XTU's been running fine for 10hrs. I'll stop at 12hrs and do some h.264.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProKoN View Post

Yep p95 has not been updated to stress the new instruction sets, avx2. It can not cope with adaptive voltage, thus in turn overvolting the cpu. Unless you set your vcore mode to manual or static. Use whatever works for you. I just recommend xtu because it does not face these challenges, it is developed by intel and updated fairly frequently.

When I suggest xtu to a noobie it usually saves me time and headaches when helping with an overclock. It is the only software I have found that displays all system vitals..ring ratio, ring voltage piv...etc
 

Can you link me your guide?

I don't see a problem with running Prime with Haswell. Nothing is 'officially' validated for Haswell, I don't think Intel's own utility is verified for anything, they provide something as is. For example if we're going to stress with linpack that uses AVX2. the voltage bump will be significant, probably moreso than Prime under adaptive. Those utlities, aida included, all bump the voltage above set maximum. It's a matter of how much load you're getting (at least part of it is). Some people I watch on Youtube thinks Haswell can be damaged from Prime... yeah, if you leave it on adaptive and stress. The same can be said and said even more urgently for Linpack. So I guess that just leaves with the fact that Prime does not stress all the parts of the CPU. Whether that means it is irrelevent is harder to establish. There still are people crashing Prime. And what exactly is prime? It's mathematics. The CPU can't do math? Let's not forget Prime has AVX.

 

Just something to think about. I don't feel there is enough data for me to remove Prime from my guide alltogether.

And thanks, I try to help if I can around these parts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clexzor View Post

I thought 9c was iether ram or driver crash...

Anywyas yeah ive ran my uncore above 1.4v shorlty to try and get my 5.2ghz to bench on 3dmark lol
but from what ive seen im sure 1.4+ on uncore voltage want do any damage that hard overclocking wont already do so enjoy brotha! thumb.gif
but ya main voltahge imo to look out for is the input voltage imo stay below 2.2v for a 24/7 period.

I heard somebody died on 2.2v input voltage! Err, the CPU, not the person.

 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by error-id10t View Post

How do you guys define stock VID? Do you just set it to x35 manually and check what it shows, for example mine would be 1.04v in this case? If I check it under Cinebench it's 1.035v. If I check it under Prime Blend it's 1.09v.

Also when posting temps, can you mention if you're delidded.

My chart already includes "delidded" under "cooling solution" if the person has delidded. If I didn't add delidded, it means it's not delidded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarytiger View Post

@BangBang I know what you mean. I'm not going to bother pushing the limits anymore. My 2500k wouldn't run stable at anything over 4.5. I obsessed over it for months, tweaking this and that, only to find that it just wasn't a great chip. I don't use synthetics anymore because I could be stable for hours on occt or prime and it would crash on bf3 or video encoding. IMO if you're not an extreme overclocker that loves benching, you should keep it simple and find that sweet spot with reasonable voltage and temps. I'm saving myself the headache this time around.

Thing is though, 'reasonable temps and voltage', even that phrase varies with people. I'm running 4.6ghz at 1.425v right now in attempt to be 24/7 stable under chess. Many people won't need that sort of stability but I do. For me it's tolerable, temps are tolerable, it's a matter of nor crashing and not being voltage degraded. If I look at it in context: 4.5 required 1.28v. 4.7 requires god knows what volts to be stable (I tried 1.5v and failed, miserably). So which is the sweet spot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Takinato View Post

No matter what I have done, I have not been able to get 4.2 stable besides 1.26 volts which seems higher tan most people. Batch #L313B335
Current stable 4.2 x42 uncore 35, ram 1600, core volts 1.26, everything else auto. Intel extreme test resulted in 90c max temp on package but core 0 hit 98
going to just run 4.0ghz at 1.23 volts and leave it alone. I got a great deal on the processor and won't be able to return it.

Any other ideas? Currently running hyper evo, thinking of getting a h100i.

I think your CPU is below average and you are thermally limited. Either delid, get h100i (I dunno why everybody gets that, x60 seems slightly better), or use an easier synthetic. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProKoN View Post


Overclocking Haswell really demands a quality cooler if you want to push your clocks.

the hyper evo is not a good quality cooler imo. you would be better off with nocuta nhd-14 if you like air cooling, since they offer free socket mounting hardware in the future if you change motherboards.

i would suggest minimum 240mm AIO cooler for your best results like the h100i.

is the swiftech h220 available in your region? apparently not available for US customers????

my fav cheapo 240mm is the thermaltake water extreme 2.0. i think it performs better than the h100i because the rad is thicker, but then you dont get corsair link, which i could care less about on any give sunday.

http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX39192


the swiftech h220 is by far my Favorite AIO cooler

I think Swiftech is quiet, that's what it has going for it vs x60 Kraken. It's kind of like Noctua vs Silver Arrow. Personally I'd rather have the louder option because hell, my case fans are louder than those fans so the quiet-ness of those things don't matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Texas View Post

Just wanted to let you guys know...

ANY MSI Z87 GD65 OWNERS:

the newest bios, version 1.4 was just released.
it seems to add a lot more fine tuning with voltages.
there may have been more bios' released for other boards but i didn't check yet.

thumb.gif

THERE'S NO NEW BIOS FOR G45 USERS WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH hannibalsmiley.png

Notice:

The g45 gaming motherboard now has a new Audio driver, so if you use integrated, check it out!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by killaho View Post

Hey dudes, I just wanted to say that this thread has been very useful in my own efforts to overclock my 4770K. Haswell is a different beast unlike the 2500K I had before. It's definitely trickier to o/c. This thread help shed some light on all the different settings. Thanks Darkwizzie!

Here is what I have so far with my 4770K.

CPU: 4770K delidded
Core Mult: 47
Uncore: 42
Vcore: 1.34
Uncore volt: 1.14
Cooler: Seidon 240m
Ram speed: 1600mhz
Batch #: L310B492
Tested with IXTU plus winamp on repeat thumb.gif



BTW... here is my 2 cents about stability testing programs. IMHO the latest Linpack is the toughest stability test to pass.

http://software.intel.com/en-us/articles/intel-math-kernel-library-linpack-download

If you can pass Linpack at the highest setting you can pretty much pass any other stability test. It generates the most amount of heat. The latest Prime95 being second.

http://www.mersenneforum.org/showpost.php?p=350674&postcount=238

This Prime95 version uses the FMA3 instruction set. It recognizes Haswell. It also generates a ton of heat. Then you have Aida64 and IXTU. I have not tried OCCT on Haswell yet. Anyways thanks again to Darkwizzie and the other posters for sharing useful info to help fellow overclockers.

Cheers! cheers.gif

Thanks, I try my best to help. 

Congrats, your settings have been charted into the Google Doc and you have met the requirements for picture verification!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameyscott View Post


Assuming it's also an update for the g45, heck yeah!

Nope. :(
But maybe there will be a new one now they are done with gd65.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

I wish I understood more of the "why" of Haswell.

Why does it pass one day with a given set of settings only to fail the next with the same settings? (I think that one may be temp related)

Why does it always seem to fail in pass 9 or 10 or IBT? Why does it always seem to fail in minute 10 or 11 of a Handbrake encode? (maybe also temp related?)

Why does x264 encoding take so much more Vcore for stability than IBT (in my case +0.025V)? What is x264 stressing differently than IBT, and is there a voltage other than Vcore that would fix it? (maybe it is memory controller related?)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by t0tum View Post


I second this.

101 - more vccin is needed, can be caused by raising vcore, SA/analog/digital, ring, without raising vccin. Simply not enough input voltage for cpu.
124 - more vcore is needed, but also too much vcore is applied. Can also mean bad frequency/uncore relation. Adjusting ring voltage without touching other settings can help.
9c, 0A, 01A, 0F7, etc - seems memory related (SA/analog/digital), but can also be resolved by aplying more vcore.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by byardz View Post


Yeah lol

One day it"ll pass the stress, next day it bsod's...puts me and I'm sure anyone else who gets this in a serious state of confusion.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameyscott View Post


Yup, exactly what happened to me. Heck yeah 8 hours stable on P95 at 4.4GHz,. *Let's system cool down and then plays BF3 on and off for a good 3-4 hours, BSOD? ***?!?!?

Then, I said screw it and pushed passed to 4.5GHz, so far no BSODs! Oh Haswell.....

What temps are you guys hitting? I'm hitting 80C max typically, I've hit 82C for a split second once in like 48 hours of chess.

Stability is a funny thing for me too, I've lasted 48 hours of chess, but then I've Bsoded in 15 minutes of chess.


Edited by Darkwizzie - 8/28/13 at 2:20am
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post #1262 of 19603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post

I think your CPU is below average and you are thermally limited. Either delid, get h100i (I dunno why everybody gets that, x60 seems slightly better), or use an easier synthetic. 

Considering i paid less then $200 for the CPU, I'm ok with it being below average, just need to find out if the kraken fits my case with minor modifications. I have it at 4.0ghz right now and i'll just leave it there.
post #1263 of 19603
where do I download the chess benchmark the OP used?
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post #1264 of 19603
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by givmedew View Post

where do I download the chess benchmark the OP used?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post

Hey deepor.

 

I am using Arena 3.0 GUI which is free.

I am also using Houdini 3.0 for stressing because it's what I use for real life workloads. I use that as stressing, and Houdini 3 is the strongest engine out there today. If the author can push more performance out of it by juicing the CPU to do more work, you bet the author would do it. The point is to simulate, realistically, how much load, temps, stress, you would end up putting on a CPU in real life in a worst case scenario and I think Houdini does it well considering it does not elevate temps to insane amounts like synthetics do. So if I get 70C, I know I won't get higher than that gaming, or doing other stuff.

 

I have not tested other engines, candidates could be Stockfish, Rybka, Komodo, Critter. I'm guessing it won't make a big difference but I can test it later if you want.

 

When you have engines play against each other what happens is, when the game switches sides, there is a momentary pause between calculations, like when it's now black's turn, there will be a second worth of time where CPU doesn't calculate. So I believe having one engine calculate nonstop would be best for stability. One way to acheive that is to set the time for the game to infinite, and stop when you're done. You can also set 5 hours per move and it'll stop after 5 hours.

 

However running a chess tournament where engines go head to head seems to stress more than I thought too. I'm giving it a variety of workloads right now.

 

The position I typically use for infinite analysis is the opening position, move 1 for white. Just don't pick some stupid position where the game is basically over. For engine vs engine matches, of course, we start with opening position and play like a regular chess engine match. If you are interested, I made a quick tutorial to those who have never done any chess stuff.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZJLrBAiCN0

 

One of the reasons why I use Chess instead of encoding is because I don't encode with CPU only to simulate all cores. Well, I rarely encode to begin with, but when I do, I use OpenCL so CPU doesn't go to 100%. But I can force CPU only for stressing though. Plus, I have chess already installed and I know chess pretty well, so there's no hassle with installing or learning, etc. Oh, and I actually use Chess, lol. If I crash at chess, I have a problem because my work still crash when I'm asleep. if I only crash in CPU only encoding, that doesn't really matter as much because I don't do CPU only encoding even if I do encode.

 

I personally find it fun to just play around even when I'm not analyzing things or doing large-scale tournaments. It's a mighty fine CPU benchmarks, it can even accurately pinpoint a performance change for each multiplier increase in uncore. You try to benchmark CPU performance in games, you'll have a hard time already, because more CPU is used in AI heavy scenes typically full of action which is hard to replicate AND games are still typically more GPU reliant, expect less FPS change... but what if I'm changing uncore which affects performance way less than core? You will never see a gradual FPS increase as I gradually increase uncore.

 
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post #1265 of 19603
Quote:
Originally Posted by givmedew View Post

where do I download the chess benchmark the OP used?

To add to that answer you already got (watch that video!), here's what I found out:

The engine OP uses, you probably can't use as it's not free.

Here's what you should probably search for and download:

Arena 3.0 (this is the UI)
Critter 1.6a
Rybka 2.3.2a
Houdini 1.5a
Stockfish 4

The mentioned video will show you how to install the engines in Arena. Then run a tournament with two or more of those engines. For the Stockfish engine, you first have to load it once by itself and right-click on the output window and choose configure, then look for the "threads" option and increase it to 4 from the default 1. It won't use all CPU cores otherwise. The other engines will work fine without doing anything. You can also search for an opening book, I guess, and set that up in Arena and for the engines, but that's not really needed (Critter comes with its own book so it will handily win the tournament and I didn't like that).
post #1266 of 19603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post

The g45 gaming motherboard now has a new Audio driver, so if you use integrated, check it out!!!

Where did You saw that kind of update?

Just check the bios release dates of GD65 and G45, last one was 2 day after, and the earlier one was at the same day, so we need to just wait tho.
Edited by BrX1991 - 8/28/13 at 3:09am
post #1267 of 19603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post

My chart already includes "delidded" under "cooling solution" if the person has delidded. If I didn't add delidded, it means it's not delidded.

Yeah.. except some of them are just BS. You cannot run 1.3+v on air and supposedly not throttle. That's what I've been asking all along, I see 90+ degrees when I'm at 1.3v and that's under water.
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post #1268 of 19603
Quote:
Originally Posted by error-id10t View Post

Yeah.. except some of them are just BS. You cannot run 1.3+v on air and supposedly not throttle. That's what I've been asking all along, I see 90+ degrees when I'm at 1.3v and that's under water.

I am on air, and on 1.34 I was below 85*C. So Yours cooling probably sucks
post #1269 of 19603
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrX1991 View Post


Where did You saw that kind of update?

Just check the bios release dates of GD65 and G45, last one was 2 day after, and the earlier one was at the same day, so we need to just wait tho.

I used the MSi update utllity they have. It's half decent if you don't want to visit their site and double check the latest version for everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by error-id10t View Post


Yeah.. except some of them are just BS. You cannot run 1.3+v on air and supposedly not throttle. That's what I've been asking all along, I see 90+ degrees when I'm at 1.3v and that's under water.

 

I am not a BSer. I ran 1.5v on high end air doing chess, hitting 91C. Gaming will be a bit cooler. If you want to challenge the legitimacy of both my entire chart and my own results then you better have tons of proof to prove I'm lying. If you are getting higher temps than others, the first thing you do isn't to accuse me or anybody else of fraud, you ask what's up.
 
And to say "you'll throttle" is terribly vague. Will I throttle under 1.3v? That's as vague as saying "how many ghz is your cpu?" without specifying what CPU. 1.3v under what cooling, delid or not, under what activity?

Edited by Darkwizzie - 8/28/13 at 4:56am
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post #1270 of 19603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepor View Post


To add to that answer you already got (watch that video!), here's what I found out:

The engine OP uses, you probably can't use as it's not free.

Here's what you should probably search for and download:

Arena 3.0 (this is the UI)
Critter 1.6a
Rybka 2.3.2a
Houdini 1.5a
Stockfish 4

The mentioned video will show you how to install the engines in Arena. Then run a tournament with two or more of those engines. For the Stockfish engine, you first have to load it once by itself and right-click on the output window and choose configure, then look for the "threads" option and increase it to 4 from the default 1. It won't use all CPU cores otherwise. The other engines will work fine without doing anything. You can also search for an opening book, I guess, and set that up in Arena and for the engines, but that's not really needed (Critter comes with its own book so it will handily win the tournament and I didn't like that).

Meh. Just use Houdini 1.5a. Very powerful, and very easy to use. Simply do what I did for Houdini 3, same exact installation and usage instructions. Stockfish 4 and Komodo might be slightly stronger than Houdini 1.5a but for the purposes of stressing it doesn't matter.

 

Stockfish 4 is new, I wonder how well it stacks against Houdini 3. Very likely Houdini 3 is still top dog but it's catching up. Houdini 3 seems to win by a large margin in blitz games but for loner time controls the advantage thins out a bit.

 

Well, I guess you don't care, most of you guys use it for stressing only, lol.


Edited by Darkwizzie - 8/28/13 at 5:21am
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XPSC Raystorm Pro Watercool Heatkiller 1080ti Full Cover Waterblock EK XTOP Revo Dual D5 (Serial, PWM, v4) EK ZMT (1/2 - 3/4 ID OD) 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
14xEK ACF (Compression Fittings) EK x4 250 (v2) Distilled Water + PT Nuke (Copper Sulphate) 24x140mm Silent Wings 3 
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