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Haswell Overclocking Guide [With Statistics] - Page 134

post #1331 of 19540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anusha View Post

Seriously? That's nuts! I mean, they say Prime95 is not certified for Haswell but that's what they are using in the benchmark? Maybe that's what they are using in the stress test too! (A custom prime test; maybe without AVX!!!)

unfortunately i can not run the xtu benchmark. i think it has something to do with my board, msi z87 mpower max. the reason i say this is the xtu utility is available for download right off the msi website, however the version on the msi website does Not have the benchmarking option available. im i currently using the latest version downloaded from intels site.

if i try to run the xtu benchmark my system crashes. at defaults\stock or overclocked.

xtu stress test uses linpack xeon x64 to stress

post #1332 of 19540
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by givmedew View Post

My vcore is already much much higher than what I needed to be stable at 4.5GHz in Aida64 all my games and weeks of just using the computer. I think I was at 1.280 at 4.5GHz. Now I am using my 4.6GHz voltage settings at 4.5GHz and still getting errors.

I am going to try to up the Vrin.

But my Vrin is already at 1.9V

Wondering if I should just call it quits on prime95

This chips seem to be more elusive than the i7-9xx chips.

Yup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anusha View Post


i take everything back. i don't know anything about Haswell.

see, i did 12hr+ XTU and 6hr+ Handbrake in the daytime
last night i got to sleep with a queue put into HandBrake and it had crashed when i woke up. not a BSOD. just a system reset. no effing idea what is causing these non-BSOD crashes. frown.gif

I'm still getting 9c. Still very spodaric, 12 hours will fail or pass depending on the mood.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Takinato View Post


The problem is 240m radiators don't fit without modifications in my case and I'm not really looking to get a new one. I'm sitting here debating on phanteks ph-tc14pe and nh-d14.

I suggest  Silver Arrow. Best performance. D14 if you want quietness instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post


Prime95 took a lot more voltage than Aida for me as well. Aida is not particularly stressful.

I wouldn't worry about Prime, just test with x264 or chess or BF3 or something.

Still gettin' 9c.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ologiic View Post

I just want a small overclock, 4GHz is what I have set in mine. Think I could get that on stock voltage?

If not, typically 1.2v will be enough for 4ghz. 1.2v is a safe starting voltage and you'll be fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by givmedew View Post


Just double checking but VCCIN, VRIN, and CPU Input Voltage all refer to the same thing correct?

Yea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abombthecoder View Post

if I hit over a 100'c during stressing on occasion, will that damage my cpu? I have not gotten any blue screens or system crashes, and I instantly stop stress testing if my temps get to 90's, but sometimes they shoot hire.

4770k i'm testing.

How do you hit over 100C? That's insane, man. I dunno, it might and it might not, hard to tell. It ain't safe, that much is clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by error-id10t View Post


No offense but your graph lacks specifics. 90% of the entries do not specify length of whatever they ran and secondly lack any link to that person's post that you've accepted - I'm not going to go through 100+ pages trying to find it and see what exactly was shown - it's your thread and if you accepted it, that's fine. That is not the point.

Run XTU bench (as an example) on air @ 1.3v+ - show me your volts and temps? Don't run the stress test as that's close to useless when it comes to temps. Also when you run this - tell me what your RAM speed is; if I drop it to 1333Mhz from 2133Mhz my temps drop by over 10 degrees.

I've already considered that my loop has a problem but it doesn't; I can easily verify that by checking my GPU temps when I stress those. The CPU block.. re-seated that 5 times now and always with 1-2 degrees, can't see an issue there.

I myself have gone way past 1.3v on air and specified how long a test is run.

 

I don't see the point in linking to every single result with its original link either, people don't always list how long the test is written for. When I post my own results on there, I do put how long I ran something for. I'm trying to ask people how long the test is run for in recent weeks. In short, I'm trying to make my chart better, whether it is by picture verification or by more specific details and more details on the chart.

 

Now about my stress being useless: You will not run into temps higher than chess doing normal activities, that includes 24/7 CPU only video encoding, or Crysis 3 or BF3. The same can be said for load. I also listed my ram speed in my entry, I use that when I do any sort of stressing right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by combatant3219 View Post


Just my two cents but I think a little more emphasis needs to be put on how long and what you are using to stress your system.

Reading all the posts on here I see so many people having trouble with BSOD's and stability but then it also appears like stress tests have only been run for short periods of time or even not at all and just gaming etc is used.

In my opinion the best test for stability is to use a combination of these different tests as well as regular use. It might take some time but in my experience it leads to less BSOD'/errors and time fiddling around to fix things in the long run.

And just because Prime or another testing software doesn't test a particular instruction set doesn't invalidate it as a stress testing/stability tool, however this is also why I recommend using multiple tools.

A lot of this has already been touched on before in the guide/thread and I don't claim to be an expert but this is my opinion only which is based on my experience overclocking several Sandybridge systems and now Haswell. I'm just hoping it may help people lead to increased stability. After I've set my vcore/clock multiplier/uncore etc etc I do the following.

Dial in clockspeed first with Memory at default speeds and uncore at default 35x.

1. Intel Burn Test - Run this on High. If this passes I know I'm atleast in the ball park of where I need to be.

2. Try running Cinebench and encoding something with Handrake - If these pass it's reassurance you're on the right track.

2. Aida64 - Run stability tests for FPU only and CPU/FPU/Cache/Memory for about 8 hours. You could substite the Intel XTU stability test here if you like. (Aida64 seems to be less stressful than Prime95 and Intel XTU Benchmark in my experience)

3. Prime 95/Intel XTU Benchmark - Try running Prime95 Blend for about 24 hours or Intel XTU Benchmark. (I used Prime). If your stable after this time you're pretty much good to go.

4. Play some games/Do what you normally do.

After this I would move on to upping the uncore and memory by repeating the above steps.

Remember to watch temps/throttling, but mainly voltage. Intel has stated before that it is Voltage that kills chips, not temps.

Watch your BSOD codes and remember that they can mean both too much voltage and not enough voltage. For example if you find you are constantly increasing vcore and still reaching instability with BSOD code 124, it may not be that you need more vcore, it could be you need to increase input voltage but will be able to run a lower vcore.

Haswell is a little bit tricker than Ivy and Sandy but if you put the time in at the start and are methodical about what you do, in my experience it leads to less instability down the road and less overall time wasted.

I estimate it took me about 6 days to get my Haswell stable at 4.5Ghz & 42x uncore with RAM at 2400Mhz XMP following the above. When overclocking Sandy it took less time due to less variables.

For my Haswell and Sandybridge Overclocks I followed the above and whilst it may be luck, I haven't run in to any stability problems/BSOD's during gaming and my everyday use after being able to pass those stability tests.

To be able to do the above beyond 4.6-4.7Ghz though (depending on the voltage you're pushing/temps you're seeing), unless you're running some extremely effective cooling like phase-change cooling you're probably going to need to delid.

Dont' rush in, be methodical, and you'll get results.

Just my thoughts.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by combatant3219 View Post

Oh I agree with what you're saying. I just think there seems to be a large proportion of people not really stress testing for very long at all and then wondering why they have stability problems, and I'm not referring solely to this thread or this site.

I just think it's important for people to understand that putting the hard yards in to begin with by stability testing you will and up with a much more stable system.

Sure your temps will be higher stability testing compared to normal use for the most part, and maybe that's what puts people off using Prime etc, but atleast you'll know your system should be rock solid.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for pushing for the highest clocks you can get and I've played around with 4.8Ghz on my 4770k too and had my old Sandy at 4.9Ghz 24/7 stable, but I'd rather be rock solid stable at 4.5Ghz than have some instability at 4.8Ghz and BSOD during a session of BF3 for example.

That being said I'm planning to push my 4770K further. Hoping to get to 4.7Ghz stable without delid if possible, but happily running with 4.5Ghz for the time being.

There's no way to stress with synthetics at my voltage. It's not an option. I'd have problems with Chess. For example, I'm getting an elusive 9c error which people guess is memory related, but XMP profile off, voltage wee bit above stock, still same exact crash. I'd let the computer run chess overnight, sometimes I wake up it crashed, sometimes not. I've done many things, I've upped vcore tons, still nothing. The only thing a synthetic might help would be making me bsod faster, but without any idea on how to fix it, it won't help. I've easily passed Cinebench, that's not a problem, Chess is harder. I've been gaming on Bf3 without any hitch (apart from my mobo's finnicky ethernet chip...)

 

I've already tried Vrin, Vcore, Vring, core multiplier, uncore multiplier, SA voltage, Io voltages, Ram voltages, Ram speed. We all know the less stress you do the higher chance of Bsod later on. It's a risk a person decided to take. If a person is willing to up their voltage to get to the next multiplier at the risk of not doing synthetics, that's their prerogative. Now if I assume the worst and later on my settings become downright unusable, I can just default back to a lower multiplier, I have my settings written down and I can go straight to a lower setting that I've already tested which is Prime stable.


Edited by Darkwizzie - 8/29/13 at 2:21am
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post #1333 of 19540
i am wondering if this is not related to my OC at all.
i got a non-BSOD reboot after 11hrs of continuous H.264 encoding. i don't even think it is VCCIN related. because i dropped the VCCIN down to 1.7V just to see if i get the reboot quickly, but AIDA64 is still running fine after 15min. :-/

it must be a driver or something. or the bios. i am not running the official bios. this is a modded bios. maybe it has something to do with the bios. will try flashing to official 711 and see.
post #1334 of 19540
Well you could use blue screen view (small app) to see what code it bsod with.
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post #1335 of 19540
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProKoN View Post

unfortunately i can not run the xtu benchmark. i think it has something to do with my board, msi z87 mpower max. the reason i say this is the xtu utility is available for download right off the msi website, however the version on the msi website does Not have the benchmarking option available. im i currently using the latest version downloaded from intels site.

if i try to run the xtu benchmark my system crashes. at defaults\stock or overclocked.

xtu stress test uses linpack xeon x64 to stress


That's interesting you say you can't use the XTU benchmark with your motherboard. I don't see why the model of motherboard should stop you running it.

I'm using the standard MPower board and just ran the benchmark with my overclock settings no problems. On adaptive voltage it peaked at 1.275 vcore, so 0.05 over my set vcore. Must be due to AVX.

Running the Stress Tests my vcore peaks at the set 1.225 and max temps are 11C lower.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post

Yup.
I'm still getting 9c. Still very spodaric, 12 hours will fail or pass depending on the mood.
I suggest  Silver Arrow. Best performance. D14 if you want quietness instead.
Still gettin' 9c.
If not, typically 1.2v will be enough for 4ghz. 1.2v is a safe starting voltage and you'll be fine.
Yea.
How do you hit over 100C? That's insane, man. I dunno, it might and it might not, hard to tell. It ain't safe, that much is clear.
I myself have gone way past 1.3v on air and specified how long a test is run.

I don't see the point in linking to every single result with its original link either, people don't always list how long the test is written for. When I post my own results on there, I do put how long I ran something for. I'm trying to ask people how long the test is run for in recent weeks. In short, I'm trying to make my chart better, whether it is by picture verification or by more specific details and more details on the chart.

Now about my stress being useless: You will not run into temps higher than chess doing normal activities, that includes 24/7 CPU only video encoding, or Crysis 3 or BF3. The same can be said for load. I also listed my ram speed in my entry, I use that when I do any sort of stressing right now.

There's no way to stress with synthetics at my voltage. It's not an option. I'd have problems with Chess. For example, I'm getting an elusive 9c error which people guess is memory related, but XMP profile off, voltage wee bit above stock, still same exact crash. I'd let the computer run chess overnight, sometimes I wake up it crashed, sometimes not. I've done many things, I've upped vcore tons, still nothing. The only thing a synthetic might help would be making me bsod faster, but without any idea on how to fix it, it won't help. I've easily passed Cinebench, that's not a problem, Chess is harder. I've been gaming on Bf3 without any hitch (apart from my mobo's finnicky ethernet chip...)

I've already tried Vrin, Vcore, Vring, core multiplier, uncore multiplier, SA voltage, Io voltages, Ram voltages, Ram speed. We all know the less stress you do the higher chance of Bsod later on. It's a risk a person decided to take. If a person is willing to up their voltage to get to the next multiplier at the risk of not doing synthetics, that's their prerogative.
 Now if I assume the worst and later on my settings become downright unusable, I can just default back to a lower multiplier, I have my settings written down and I can go straight to a lower setting that I've already tested which is Prime stable.

I understand you are pushing for high clocks, and you are having fun doing it. I respect that. From your posts though you're obviously having some trouble with stability. Maybe you just didn't do so well on the silicon lottery and that's why you need such high volts, or maybe there's another element at play. Degradation due to high voltage/heat? Who knows.

It's good you have your fall back settings, just like I do if they're ever needed.

However, for those users that just want to set up a rock solid stable 24/7 overclock they know is going to hold its own,,sure it may not be at 5Ghz or set any records but most users should be able to reach in the vicinity of 4.4-4.6Ghz quite easily. I hope the methodology I stated in my previous post can be of benefit to some users.

Fingers crossed you can nail down what's causing your inconsistent stability issues thumb.gif
post #1336 of 19540
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by combatant3219 View Post
I understand you are pushing for high clocks, and you are having fun doing it. I respect that. From your posts though you're obviously having some trouble with stability. Maybe you just didn't do so well on the silicon lottery and that's why you need such high volts, or maybe there's another element at play. Degradation due to high voltage/heat? Who knows.

It's good you have your fall back settings, just like I do if they're ever needed.

However, for those users that just want to set up a rock solid stable 24/7 overclock they know is going to hold its own,,sure it may not be at 5Ghz or set any records but most users should be able to reach in the vicinity of 4.4-4.6Ghz quite easily. I hope the methodology I stated in my previous post can be of benefit to some users.

Fingers crossed you can nail down what's causing your inconsistent stability issues thumb.gif

It's true, I didn't win the silicon lottery. Since day one the amount of volts I needed was more than some of the other guys. At the start I actually though I had better CPU than average because I actually lowered uncore etc, but once the info is out to everybody other people's OCs went up while mine stayed almost the same. For giggles I tried to get 4.7 and no amount of voltage (read: 1.5v+ not enough) could stabilize it. I think I'm fixated at 4.6 now. One reason I'm willing to deal with 4.6 is because I want the best CPU performance I can get for chess. That, any many of my games are CPU intensive or CPU bottlenecked (still), so I have a greater incentive to get higher clocks.

 

It's also true, that not everybody wants to push it like I do... Some people just don't want to bother/don't want such high voltages/etc etc and for those guys Prime is much more useful.


Edited by Darkwizzie - 8/29/13 at 4:12am
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post #1337 of 19540
I have fianlly managed to get 4.5 ghz stable @ 1.32V with XTU for 9 hours and counting.

My ram was also set to 1333 mhz and cpu voltage in 2.0
RIng bus 3900 mhz.

My temps saw a max of 88C on core 0 while core 3 only saw 73C.

That makes for a diff fo 15C. Is this normal or should I reseat my H100?

I'll settle for 4.5 ghz. Are there any other tests I should run?

Should I up my ring bus now, then try my ram at XMP?
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post #1338 of 19540
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qazzaq2004 View Post

I have fianlly managed to get 4.5 ghz stable @ 1.32V with XTU for 9 hours and counting.

My ram was also set to 1333 mhz and cpu voltage in 2.0
RIng bus 3900 mhz.

My temps saw a max of 88C on core 0 while core 3 only saw 73C.

That makes for a diff fo 15C. Is this normal or should I reseat my H100?

I'll settle for 4.5 ghz. Are there any other tests I should run?

Should I up my ring bus now, then try my ram at XMP?

15C difference at 88C, that's starting to get on the large side. I had 10C difference.

Yea, go with ring bus and ram, have fun and don't forget to come back to have your settings charted!

 

1337th post! w00t

I'll get onto editing my guide soon...


Edited by Darkwizzie - 8/29/13 at 4:37am
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post #1339 of 19540
Should I be concerned about the 15C temp difference? Does it require a reseat of my cpu cooler?

Any tips on voltages for increasing my Ring Bus? I have it for auto @ 3900 Mhz currently.

I know I want to be aiming for a 1:1 ratio, so what voltage should I use for a 4500 Mhz ring bus overclock?

I've seen a guide where it says to use the same vcore and then steadily drop the voltage if stable. But 1.32 CPU Cache voltage sounds a bit high to me.
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post #1340 of 19540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post

It's true, I didn't win the silicon lottery. Since day one the amount of volts I needed was more than some of the other guys. At the start I actually though I had better CPU than average because I actually lowered uncore etc, but once the info is out to everybody other people's OCs went up while mine stayed almost the same. For giggles I tried to get 4.7 and no amount of voltage (read: 1.5v+ not enough) could stabilize it. I think I'm fixated at 4.6 now. One reason I'm willing to deal with 4.6 is because I want the best CPU performance I can get for chess. That, any many of my games are CPU intensive or CPU bottlenecked (still), so I have a greater incentive to get higher clocks.

It's also true, that not everybody wants to push it like I do... Some people just don't want to bother/don't want such high voltages/etc etc and for those guys Prime is much more useful.
Dude i think we got similar sillicon on ours cuz i'm in the same boat as you 4.6 won't be stabelized no matter what.
It's not like i'm fighting temps or anything i went up to 1.45 (as well as trying to up/lower all other individual volts)
The whole week i've been trying 4.6 but i need a brake.
so i'm gonna enjoy my 4.5 @ 1.276v max for now because i know this is stable, after 12 hours of XTU and 24 hours of Prime95 max temp 71c.
Edit: And some gaming sessions of a couple of hours
Edited by MojoW - 8/29/13 at 4:56am
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