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Haswell Overclocking Guide [With Statistics] - Page 172

post #1711 of 19539
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wendigo4700 View Post


Serval times. Why?

Oh nevermind then.

 

For me was 1.2v.

Many of us start at 1.2v for an overclock. Any less is too little and a waste of time. Most CPUs reach 1.2v at 4.0ghz just fine. Many auto-oc rules set it to 1.2v as well.

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post #1712 of 19539
Okay, so can somebody explain Haswell overclocking to me like I'm a five year old? Every guide I look at is vastly different and none of them have actually been all that helpful.

OCing used to be so simple---then I stopped doing it for about three years, so I have a lot of catching up to do tongue.gif
    
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post #1713 of 19539
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spritanium View Post

Okay, so can somebody explain Haswell overclocking to me like I'm a five year old? Every guide I look at is vastly different and none of them have actually been all that helpful.

OCing used to be so simple---then I stopped doing it for about three years, so I have a lot of catching up to do tongue.gif

Call me biased but I think my method is the best.

I'm not really sure how to explain it more simply.

 

1. Set Uncore (AKA Ring Bus) to core ratio to manual. Set it to stock multiplier manually. With ring bus running on stock and locked at stock for now, no need to fiddle with ring bus voltage. That goes to auto. Some motherboards MAY increase Vring to unsafe levels if you didn't manually set ring bus to stock because the motherboard will try to auto-overclock the ring bus if left on auto. Avoid future headaches by following step 1.
2. Set any XMP profile OFF for ram. If your ram is above 1600, set it to 1600, no higher while we're testing overclocks. Heck, if your ram is XMP'ed for 1600, lower it to non XMP. Doesn't hurt.
3. Start ramping up the core multiplier and voltage until you think you've found your sweet spot. Do stress test and if you pass, go to step 4.
NOTE: Yes, you up the core multiplier by 1 each time. You can probably get away with starting at 4ghz though. Because the core clock is 100, 100 x 40 = 4000mhz or 4ghz.
4. Now we fiddle with ram, higher ring bus/ring bus voltage in effort to get marginally better performance. Stress test. Do not raise ring bus or ram if it means lowering core clock for stability.
5. If you are hardcore or have a lot of time on your hands, you can try adding clockstrap to the mix but I'd stay away from it unless you're super duper picky. Nobody has reported very good results with this but you're welcome to experiment.
6. Set it to adaptive mode instead of manual now. Do not stress with adaptive.
 
What specific part needs clarification?

Edited by Darkwizzie - 9/2/13 at 12:23pm
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post #1714 of 19539
I mainly don't understand the first part, because I'm not quite sure what the Uncore/Ring Bus actually is. I used to just have to worry about the multiplier and vcore for a quick overclock, but now there's all this new stuff tongue.gif

Is the stock Uncore multiplier 35? Same as the core multiplier? I just saw another guide that said to set the core/uncore multipliers to the exact same number. So a 4.2ghz overclock would have a 42x multiplier for both the core and uncore. Is this accurate, or should the uncore just stay at 35 no matter what?
    
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post #1715 of 19539
Is it normal that it's set to like 1.328 vcore in bios yet, sometimes i spikes 1.344, what the hell?

All monitors shows this even in bios, this makes it very unsecure to determine like so;

Up to 3.12 it's actually 3.11 once i reach 3.12 it ramps to 3.28, once i reach 3.24 it's 3.44
Does this make sense to anyone?

I can't make this overclock to make any sense at all, i've been booting into desktop easily at 3.12 ~
While 3.2-3 sometimes wont even logon


Like seriously.. what?

Yes i tried to increase vccin accordingly



What i booted in at to write this







Edited by Hyolyn - 9/2/13 at 12:37pm
post #1716 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyolyn View Post

Is it normal that it's set to like 1.328 vcore in bios yet, sometimes i spikes 1.344, what the hell?

All monitors shows this even in bios, this makes it very unsecure to determine like so;

Up to 3.12 it's actually 3.11 once i reach 3.12 it ramps to 3.28, once i reach 3.24 it's 3.44
Does this make sense to anyone?

I can't make this overclock to make any sense at all, i've been booting into desktop easily at 3.12 ~
While 3.2-3 sometimes wont even logon


Like seriously.. what?

Yes i tried to increase vccin accordingly

Yes it is normal, the actual voltage inside the core will be slightly more than your VID (BIOS entry). The theory is that is the FIRV (voltage regulator) automatically compensating for Vdroop, so it would appear that it is out of our hands. So monitor the voltage, but focus your changes on the VID because that is what you can control. The higher the entry the higher the offset but it averages around 0.010V-0.020V. So instead of dropping it actually spikes at loads.

I was having trouble with my Vcore reading because it would go down to 0.000V while idling at the desktop, but the reading under load appears to be accurate and consistent with other people's results. For example I use 1.225V for 4.6 GHz but it reaches 1.238V while under loads. As long as you are stable and not too hot the reading isn't important, so just keep that in mind.
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post #1717 of 19539
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spritanium View Post

I mainly don't understand the first part, because I'm not quite sure what the Uncore/Ring Bus actually is. I used to just have to worry about the multiplier and vcore for a quick overclock, but now there's all this new stuff tongue.gif

Is the stock Uncore multiplier 35? Same as the core multiplier? I just saw another guide that said to set the core/uncore multipliers to the exact same number. So a 4.2ghz overclock would have a 42x multiplier for both the core and uncore. Is this accurate, or should the uncore just stay at 35 no matter what?

Haswell is a new system, staying in the loop with Ivy and Sandy won't help one bit, so in sitting out for 3 years you have lost nothing. We've all had to start from scratch.

 

The Uncore is stock at same speed as the core clock, yes. For 4670k that's 3.4ghz, for 4770k that's 3.5ghz. Uncore is kind if like a secondary clock speed. Might have something to do with cache or something as Asus calls it cache ratio. What it all comes down to are the benchmarks and throughout all of my testing I have demonstrated that it barely affects the speed of your CPU. The reason why I tell everybody to set it to stock is for a few reasons... First and foremost, you can't overclock too well if you're overclocking your core clock, uncore clock, and ram all at the same time. Too many variables, and the voltage associated with those three all change. So if you crash nobody has a clue what caused the crash. Another reason is, setting an overclocked uncore can hinder your maximum core overclock. And finally, some motherboards automatically overclock the uncore without you knowing it! That's no good. They can even set unsafe voltages if you're unlucky. By setting uncore to stock manually you bypass all those problems.

 

Pardon me if it sounds arrogant but I'd like to think for getting 172 pages of replies I'm getting something right... And one of the main points I bring up is how useless the uncore really is. We heard it on launch day from JJ from Asus, Linus, etc, that oh, having uncore and core being the same exact speed (aka 1:1 ratio) is optimal. Yes, in a perfect world we'd all be running 1:1 ratio at 500ghz overclocks, but unfortunately it doesn't work that way. They got cherry picked units, we're just regular consumers. I've demonstrated along with another fellow forum member (evidence on first post) again and again that uncore barely does anything. What basically happened on launch week was, everybody simply assumed uncore was doing something great because JJ and the others kept talking about it. We assumed that having uncore too low compared to your core clock somehow bottlenecks the CPU. But the data simply isn't there to support that hypothesis. 1:1 isn't a spot where the cpu because magically faster, it's just that if your uncore is higher than your core, that's completely stupid as you will get no performance boost for that overclock.So what happened on launch week? People were frustrated how they got crappy overclocks and included one angry "Worst 4770k ever" rant thread that had to get cleaned by a mod. Lol.

 

Although uncore is mostly useless, mostly useless still beats the heck out of completely useless. That is why many of use choose to overclock the uncore too. But only after we're done with the core! If you overclock both core and uncore and try to hit 1:1 ratio you (might) hit it if you're lucky... but at the huge caveat of having a lower core clock because an overclocked uncore may compromise your ability to overclock your core clock. So how do we bypass this problem? Simple. We overclock the core first and then touch the uncore after we're done with the core. That way, the uncore can never affect our maximum core clock.

 

So let me try to put it at you simply:

Would you rather have 4.5ghz core and uncore, or 4.6ghz core and stock uncore? The latter is faster by a large margin.

 

I hope this makes sense.

If it doesn't, just trust me.

I'm a doctor. thumb.gif


Edited by Darkwizzie - 9/2/13 at 12:52pm
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post #1718 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by BangBangPlay View Post

Yes it is normal, the actual voltage inside the core will be slightly more than your VID (BIOS entry). The theory is that is the FIRV (voltage regulator) automatically compensating for Vdroop, so it would appear that it is out of our hands. So monitor the voltage, but focus your changes on the VID because that is what you can control. The higher the entry the higher the offset but it averages around 0.010V-0.020V. So instead of dropping it actually spikes at loads.

I was having trouble with my Vcore reading because it would go down to 0.000V while idling at the desktop, but the reading under load appears to be accurate and consistent with other people's results. For example I use 1.225V for 4.6 GHz but it reaches 1.238V while under loads. As long as you are stable and not too hot the reading isn't important, so just keep that in mind.

Thanks a lot for clearing that up, i guess it was like that but i'm new to Intel overclocks.
However is there any reason to fix the values, i mean if i use for example 1.324 the vcore won't spike above 1.328 and the values actually fix on 1.328 and don't jump around.
If they are fixed, it's still not stable so i wonder if that really makes a difference at all, i'm really starting to give up - once i think i got it something new happens..
post #1719 of 19539
I was told in another topic, to keep my uncore as the same speed as my CPU. So for me, it would look like this here 4GHz / 4GHz.


And then I found another topic, saying to keep the uncore 100-300MHz below the CPU speed.


But I guess its to keep it at stock, when you're done overclocking the CPU, and then you can consider raising the uncore a bit? I think thats how I understands it.

headscratch.gif
Edited by wendigo4700 - 9/2/13 at 12:54pm
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The devils pc.
(15 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-4690K MSI Z87-G45 Asus strix gtx 980 G.Skill TridentX, 8GBx2, 2400MHz 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
1x Samsung 840 PRO 256GB Phanteks ph-tc14pe w/ BeQuiet SW2 550RPM  Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit Sony FW900 1920x1200 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Saitek eclipse II BeQuiet! Dark Power Pro P11 550w Lian Li PC-8FIB  Logitech MX518 
Mouse PadAudio
QPAD CT Medium 4mm Creative SoundBlaster ZxR 
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post #1720 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by wendigo4700 View Post

I was told in another topic, to keep my uncore as the same speed as my CPU. So for me, it would look like this here 4GHz / 4GHz.


And then I found another topic, saying to keep the uncore 100-300MHz below the CPU speed.


And now you say to keep it at stock?


headscratch.gif

Put it like this, optimally 1:1 but doesn't win if your core is higher because core = king. (For example 45:35 > 40:40)
Realistically, people recommend to keep within 300MHZ of your core, why? No specially reason i can see.

Bottom line is, if you can get a higher core by lowering your uncore, then do it.
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