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Haswell Overclocking Guide [With Statistics] - Page 275

post #2741 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post

Stop worrying.
biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif
post #2742 of 19539
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomxlr8 View Post

Ok, after a few weeks of rock solid stability on 45x I've grown impatient because I clearly need taht extra MHz for emails and torrents...

I previously failed getting 46x or 47x stable in Prime 28.1. Temps or BSODs prevent this. On average blend after 10-15min would BSOD unless I stopped it first due to temps depending on what vcore I had. I don't want to delid given it's only an average chip to start with and so killing my Intel O/C warranty would only buy me a 100 MHz or so.

Has there been any further knowledge gained on using SA/IOA/IOD to stabilise crashing?

I'm also considering just accepting a BF3 MP / IXTU as "my" pass mark. Which specific test in IXTU is best and for how long?

Nope. But try it out and come back with your findings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Man View Post


That technically doesn't make sense. An instability in today's world would usually or always give a BSOD, otherwise it wouldn't be considered 'unstable'.

I haven't heard of such a thing before, unless your chip has been degraded excessively, but which is far from the question.

 

I think the dude's wrong, was just making sure.
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post #2743 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post

A member on the forums said my idea of stability is completely wrong because you can have absolutely no Bsods/restarts/etc but suffer from performance decrease due to instability. The exact example was FPS drop. Anybody ever witness such a thing, especially with absolutely no bsods or crashes etc?

It can, if the chip is doing error correction. If it recognizes the error and then re-does the calculation to get it right, it'll affect performance. You can sometimes see it in the GFlops on IBT.

Interestingly enough, I've found (in the many hundreds of times I've run IBT) that there is definite voltage scaling to the performance, at least on my chip. At too low a voltage it crashes, but give it just enough voltage to pass and you get 125 GFlops (for example). Increase the voltage a little more, and it'll go up to 126 or 127 GFlops. Increase the voltage even further, and it'll start going back down a little, like to 126.5 or 125.5. The increase from the initial voltage bump makes sense from an error correction standpoint, but I don't get why it goes back down again.
post #2744 of 19539
Its like shifting @ the perfect RPM! Just kidding, I have no idea what I'm talking about. wink.gif

So in another thread about Haswell temps, a fella is claiming an Intel rep told him the k sku's warranty is void if oced/oved. He gave a couple links, but I didn't click for fear of malware.

While, I don't doubt that Intel can tell if its been t'd up, I find it hard to believe they would even have a warranty? I mean, why put a warranty on something that costs more than the base sku and void the warranty if its used as intended. I can't get my head around it, but he was convinced.

Of course I had an EVGA phone rep tell me it was normal for a GPU to crash in Tomb Raider unless downclocked...they've had trouble with that game on Nvidia chips. So maybe I'm just a magnet for silliness?
post #2745 of 19539
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post


It can, if the chip is doing error correction. If it recognizes the error and then re-does the calculation to get it right, it'll affect performance. You can sometimes see it in the GFlops on IBT.

Interestingly enough, I've found (in the many hundreds of times I've run IBT) that there is definite voltage scaling to the performance, at least on my chip. At too low a voltage it crashes, but give it just enough voltage to pass and you get 125 GFlops (for example). Increase the voltage a little more, and it'll go up to 126 or 127 GFlops. Increase the voltage even further, and it'll start going back down a little, like to 126.5 or 125.5. The increase from the initial voltage bump makes sense from an error correction standpoint, but I don't get why it goes back down again.

 

And that is the performance difference of what, 0.8%? even if that is the case. No FPS drop will be noticed. The person said we won't notice the FPS boost of further overclocks (extra 100mhz after wall where you can't test with synthetics), yet we'll notice the performance change of less than a percent? Argument makes no sense. 

 
And in addition to all that, if one cares enough for that 0.8% the person will test the performance over and over to make sure the CPU is performing up to snuff so again the argument is moot.

 

Hard to imagine as well, CPU never, ever Bsoding when it's exhibiting such errors. Say, BF3. Or Stockfish 4. Ough to trigger Bsod one of those days.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jodiuh View Post

Its like shifting @ the perfect RPM! Just kidding, I have no idea what I'm talking about. wink.gif

So in another thread about Haswell temps, a fella is claiming an Intel rep told him the k sku's warranty is void if oced/oved. He gave a couple links, but I didn't click for fear of malware.

While, I don't doubt that Intel can tell if its been t'd up, I find it hard to believe they would even have a warranty? I mean, why put a warranty on something that costs more than the base sku and void the warranty if its used as intended. I can't get my head around it, but he was convinced.

Of course I had an EVGA phone rep tell me it was normal for a GPU to crash in Tomb Raider unless downclocked...they've had trouble with that game on Nvidia chips. So maybe I'm just a magnet for silliness?

 

I think Intel has the overclocker's warrenty that they sell separately.


Edited by Darkwizzie - 9/16/13 at 10:25pm
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post #2746 of 19539
@Jodiuh - Someone in the delidded club got Intel to RMA his delidded chip, so if they take one back with the head cut off I hardly see how they'd quibble about a little overclocking. If they could even tell, I doubt the chip keeps a record of its speeds.

@darkwizzie - you don't see it as much with Haswell for some reason, but with Ivy you used to see people getting lots of non-crashing WHEA errors when testing, which is basically a successful error correct by the chip. Bumping the voltage would get rid of them, so it is definitely stability related. I agree it's a pretty marginal performance difference , but like you pointed out, eventually one of those errors will be uncorrectable and then you'll get a 124 error.

Edit:I wish quoting was easier on the phone - editing quotes is a pain without click and drag.
Edited by Forceman - 9/16/13 at 10:30pm
post #2747 of 19539
Ahahaha! I've been thinking that for years, so its funny to see someone finally mention it. I think anyone typing from a phone should get a little "1st place" sticker in the post for the extra effort. I type on a Note 2, so I want 2nd prize for lifting weights in addition to typing with my thumbs whilst holding the computer box and input device!

Also, you can't type in bed with this thing or u run the risk of it crashing down onto your face and giving you phablet phace...very embarrasing to explain. The only solution is to lean over...this forces me to do a sit-up IN BED...my place of comfort and motionless bliss! Unacceptable!
Edited by Jodiuh - 9/16/13 at 11:12pm
post #2748 of 19539
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jodiuh View Post

Ahahaha! I've been thinking that for years, so its funny to see someone finally mention it. I think anyone typing from a phone should get a little "1st place" sticker in the post for the extra effort. I type on a Note 2, so I want 2nd prize for lifting weights in addition to typing with my thumbs whilst holding the computer box and input device!

Also, you can't type in bed with this thing or u run the risk of it crashing down onto your face and giving you phablet phace...very embarrasing to explain. The only solution is to lean over...this forces me to do a sit-up IN BED...my place of comfort and motionless bliss! Unacceptable!

That's why I type at my computer desktop station. The entertainment complex known as Dark_wizzie's lair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

@Jodiuh - Someone in the delidded club got Intel to RMA his delidded chip, so if they take one back with the head cut off I hardly see how they'd quibble about a little overclocking. If they could even tell, I doubt the chip keeps a record of its speeds.

@darkwizzie - you don't see it as much with Haswell for some reason, but with Ivy you used to see people getting lots of non-crashing WHEA errors when testing, which is basically a successful error correct by the chip. Bumping the voltage would get rid of them, so it is definitely stability related. I agree it's a pretty marginal performance difference , but like you pointed out, eventually one of those errors will be uncorrectable and then you'll get a 124 error.

Edit:I wish quoting was easier on the phone - editing quotes is a pain without click and drag.
 

And that's the thing, for his argument to hold water there needs to be no crashes or obviously the person knows it's unstable. The performance drop also needs to be detectable else the effective difference is none. Also it needs to be assumed the FPS drops so it can be detected, but the person also needs to somehow not realize it.

 

So I'm sitting here going.... What?

A drop in FPS that can be measured on an average game, an average game being more GPU reliant as a rule, means a massive drop in CPU performance for FPS to drop, one that can be measured and therefore double-checked to prevent. And I've done just that, no such CPU performance degradation was observed via chess benchmark.

 

And if it's not measurable via chess engine then the performance change is so small the entire argument is a waste of time.

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post #2749 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jodiuh View Post

Ahahaha! I've been thinking that for years, so its funny to see someone finally mention it. I think anyone typing from a phone should get a little "1st place" sticker in the post for the extra effort. I type on a Note 2, so I want 2nd prize for lifting weights in addition to typing with my thumbs whilst holding the computer box and input device!

Also, you can't type in bed with this thing or u run the risk of it crashing down onto your face and giving you phablet phace...very embarrasing to explain. The only solution is to lean over...this forces me to do a sit-up IN BED...my place of comfort and motionless bliss! Unacceptable!

I love my Note 2. That Note 3 though....
post #2750 of 19539
Ahhhhhhh, now i understand coil whine...
Its just an frequence which is in the resonance area of the coils and brings them to swing....no damage at all for the components....am i right?! biggrin.gif


(Only coil whine with p95 12k,18k not with lynx,Aida, occt,ibt,gaming,rendering....so f*** prime xD )
Edited by Menphisto - 9/17/13 at 8:11am
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