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Haswell Overclocking Guide [With Statistics] - Page 288

post #2871 of 19540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anusha View Post

what sort of error do you get? 0x124 BSOD all the time or the error codes are different?

124,101,9C
The thing with Haswell I experienced is that not always 124 is Vcore, for instance I had not enough Vccin and Vring and got 124 errors.
101 supposed to be Vcore but I am not sure about that. I could solve 124 errors sometimes using more Vcore but sometimes more Vrin/Vring.
That is what makes it so time consuming. There are so many possibilities with Vrin,Vcore,Vring and LLC. And this is only if your Ram is Ok otherwise you can add SA and VccioD/A.
Even more possibilities. I also experienced the right amounts of Vrin and Vring were important to obtain stability. Wrong Vrin/llc or wrong Vring can mess up stability.
Edited by Alxx - 9/20/13 at 12:14pm
post #2872 of 19540
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Originally Posted by Bullant View Post

New chip,on water

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post #2873 of 19540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post


I think you're confusing uncore voltage with core voltage. The uncore aka ring bus aka cache ratio voltage shouldn't really exceed 1.3 or 1.35v max to be pretty safe. In terms of core voltage, it should not exceed 1.45, 1.5v to prevent voltage degradation. I'm completely factoring heat out of the equation here. So you have plenty of voltage headroom.

Also CPU overclocking performance is now primarily based upon the CPU not the mobo. 

Im bit confused here now. So all the guides that say I shouldn't go over 1.25V are ment for "CPU Cache Voltage" not "CPU Core Voltage"? I haven't even changed Cache voltage its on auto.

My last conf was Asus P5Q with Q9400 and there I only raised the CPU to 3.4Ghz and never touched the voltages so bare with me.
post #2874 of 19540
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivo81 View Post


Im bit confused here now. So all the guides that say I shouldn't go over 1.25V are ment for "CPU Cache Voltage" not "CPU Core Voltage"? I haven't even changed Cache voltage its on auto.

My last conf was Asus P5Q with Q9400 and there I only raised the CPU to 3.4Ghz and never touched the voltages so bare with me.

 

Depends what guide you're reading. Everybody has their own spin on what is or isn't safe BUT when guides say 1.25V or under for Vcore, they are really saying you will probably hit thermal issues higher than that voltage. But that varies on many factors, CPU cooler, ambient temps, stress test in question, delid or not, case airflow, your mood, etc. So imo saying, stop at this voltage because temperatures will be too high, that's stupid. You can have higher than 40C variance in temps depending on what you're doing and how you're doing it.

 
In terms of danger from degradation you approach it at 1.45 to 1.5v. In terms of danger from overloading thermals you approach it above 90C to 95C and higher.
 
If you don't get hit with too high voltage or too high temps, then you're fine.
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post #2875 of 19540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post

Depends what guide you're reading. Everybody has their own spin on what is or isn't safe BUT when guides say 1.25V or under for Vcore, they are really saying you will probably hit thermal issues higher than that voltage. But that varies on many factors, CPU cooler, ambient temps, stress test in question, delid or not, case airflow, your mood, etc. So imo saying, stop at this voltage because temperatures will be too high, that's stupid. You can have higher than 40C variance in temps depending on what you're doing and how you're doing it.
 
In terms of danger from degradation you approach it at 1.45 to 1.5v. In terms of danger from overloading thermals you approach it above 90C to 95C and higher.
 
If you don't get hit with too high voltage or too high temps, then you're fine.

So which voltage is reffered to at the start of this thread? And which voltage are shown in the results also posted in this thread? Or actually which should I then increase when im overclocking Haswel? Core volt or cache colt or both? Thanks in advance.
post #2876 of 19540
Core is cpu oc

Cache or ringbus or vring is uncore. If your not ocing your uncore. Just stick with voltage and stick under 1.5 area guiding yourself with temps.

Uncore/vring will also increase temps ftr
post #2877 of 19540
I think with all the variance in recommended voltages floating about it just goes to show how much Haswell is still in it's infancy!

IIRC Intel recommended max voltages for air/H20 are 1.45v core and 1.35v ring but don't quote me on that.

I was speaking to one of the top pro O/C guy's on another forum a few days ago and he recommended 1.4v as a max for ring! Reason being was that the ring voltage doesn't suffer from heat as much as core. Having said that i've been looking into max voltages on the basis that heat is kept within spec and it's still relatively capped due to electromigration.

I'm sure i spotted JJ from ASUS using around 1.35vring in one of the videos floating about. He was changing core to x48 and had left uncore on auto. I believe the ASUS board automatically raised uncore to the highest possible uncore for that core multi (within ASUS BIOS preset maximums) which automatically set the vring to circa 1.35v. Video was an on-screen walkthrough using a ROG board O/C'ing up to x48.

Same goes for vcore. There seems to be an abundance of suggestion on max vcore ranging from 1.3v up to 1.45v.

At the end of the day there doesn't seem to be much info in the way of failures yet apart from the extreme guys. At the moment it's all a little up in the air till failures do start to occur. Only then will we get data and trends for recommended voltages based on fact and not somebody having a guess

The way i see it right now it's up to the individual to make their own best guess for what they are willing to run fully knowing that increasing voltage will decrease the lifespan of the CPU, as will running high temps for a prolonged period of time. For me personally i'm quite happy to use Intel's recommended maximum's providing i keep the cpu cool (water chiller on route). The added bonus theoretically being the cooler the cpu is the less voltage needed for a given speed.
Edited by Doug2507 - 9/20/13 at 7:56am
post #2878 of 19540
If you want to kill your CPU use 1.35+ vring and 1.5+ vcore. The uncore does pretty much zero/nothing useful to justify the high voltage it needs to run stable. Set it to 40 or 42 with 1.15v and call it a day.
About the CPU voltage i doubt you can use 1.3v or more without hitting 100ºc so you are temp limited much sooner then voltage no worries there thumb.gif
post #2879 of 19540
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug2507 View Post

I think with all the variance in recommended voltages floating about it just goes to show how much Haswell is still in it's infancy!

IIRC Intel recommended max voltages for air/H20 are 1.45v core and 1.35v ring but don't quote me on that.

I was speaking to one of the top pro O/C guy's on another forum a few days ago and he recommended 1.4v as a max for ring! Reason being was that the ring voltage doesn't suffer from heat as much as core. Having said that i've been looking into max voltages on the basis that heat is kept within spec and it's still relatively capped due to electromigration.

I'm sure i spotted JJ from ASUS using around 1.35vring in on of the videos floating about. He was changing core to x48 and had left uncore on auto. I believe the ASUS board automatically raised uncore to the highest possible uncore for that core multi (within ASUS BIOS preset maximums) which automatically set the vring to circa 1.35v. Video was an on-screen walkthrough using a ROG board O/C'ing up to x48.

Same goes for vcore. There seems to be an abundance of suggestion on max vcore ranging from 1.3v up to 1.45v.

At the end of the day there doesn't seem to be much info in the way of failures yet apart from the extreme guys. At the moment it's all a little up in the air till failures do start to occur. Only then will we get data and trends for recommended voltages based on fact and not somebody having a guess

The way i see it right now it's up to the individual to make their own best guess for what they are willing to run fully knowing that increasing voltage will decrease the lifespan of the CPU, as will running high temps for a prolonged period of time. For me personally i'm quite happy to use Intel's recommended maximum's providing i keep the cpu cool (water chiller on route). The added bonus theoretically being the cooler the cpu is the less voltage needed for a given speed.

 

Let's be honest, the guides made on Haswell launch day sucked. Intel's recommendations from an Intel rep was either "no more than 5%" or "10%", I forgot. But following his advice we'd all be on max, 1.2v. Intel's recommended and "max" values have been complete and utter bunk for a while now.  This was demonstrated not just on max CPU voltage, but also max ram voltage as well. JJ's guide led everybody down trying to chase 1:1 cache ratio. To this day, there are still questions both on this forum, other forums, and Youtube, of people talking about 1:1 Cache ratio.

 
 
Now, if 1.3v is max, half the overclockers in this thread are about to get screwed, and really badly in a way so bad it probably has to be censored. I'm not exaggerating either, in fact I'm probably understating it, as my chart of overclock settings show. I've already noted in the guide that nobody knows for sure how much voltage causes long term degradation because the time hasn't elapsed yet. But who the heck knew for Sandy? We can give general guidelines, but anybody that stuffs heat and voltage into one recommended max voltage is definately not giving the entire picture. 1.3v max is pure BS, pure and simple.
 
You have to take another factor into consideration apart from heat, and degradation at higher voltages, it's that you've most likely hit a voltage wall, where stability is VERY hard to come by no matter the voltage. So hitting 1.5v or higher might be irrelevent if you still can't get it to be stable no matter the Vcore.
 
Call me biased but I think my figures are good.
 
And also I'd like to reinforce the idea with Uncore. Do you know just how little it affects performance? Look at core clock. SURE, I suggest no more than 1.45v, which is a high figure to be fair, but I'm assuming you have heat under control. Uncore is more of a silent problem, you're not going to get 50C increase before problems occur. If a drop of 0.7ghz in uncore is equivalent to dropping core by 0.05ghz, that means a change in 1.4ghz would be similar to change in 100mhz core. So imagine if you orignally turbo'ed at 3.8ghz uncore. It'd be like bringing uncore up to 5.2ghz in order to net the performance increase similar to upping core multiplier by one. Only of course, the extra voltage there, although probably harmless under 1.3, 1.35, is still less safe than keeping it lower. But you do know the gains are practically none. And let's think about how small change 100mhz core clock really is. On a walking CPU benchmark like a chess workload, I spotted an increase of ~3% with extra 100mhz core.
 
Now let's realistically figure out how much EXTRA uncore you can squeeze out by hitting from 1.3v to 1.4v, 1.45v Vring. I say, at most 300mhz. Remember as you get higher the extra voltage required increases. So take the ~3% increase in speed found only in a CPU benchmark like chess and divide it by 4-5 times. THAT is how small the performance benefit is. That is your BEST CASE scenario. That's assuming you run CPU benchmarks for a living and you actually managed to squeeze an extra 300mhz with 1.45v vring vs 1.3v, of which I am very doubtful.
 
Is 1.35v+ safe? MSI doesn't really think so. Regardless, is it worth it to up the Vring like that for performance you can barely detect on a CPU benchmark? (A few even failed to pick up performance improvement with Cinebench when overclocking uncore a good 300-400 mhz.)

 

So at the end of the day practically speaking, is above 1.35v uncore voltage safe? It doesn't matter. If the extra 100mhz uncore matters to you, you're so extreme on phase or LN2, unsafe as a concept doesn't exist. And if you're not that extreme, then don't play there or you'll get burned.

 

I was so set on getting 4.6ghz core clock, trying to jump over the voltage wall by skipping on synthetic stress test alltogether, living with random bsods, tweaking everything all day. And even I figure over 4.1ghz uncore which I managed to get stable? Complete waste of time to stress further and the remote possibility of damage past 4.1ghz uncore, since I was at 1.27v Vring: Totally not worth it. And I'm already one of the more reckless dudes out there and I decided the risk for gain wasn't warranted.


Edited by Darkwizzie - 9/20/13 at 8:49am
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post #2880 of 19540
Hi all, my name is mcnico63 and I sorry for my bad english... I'm french.

I play with Haswell 4770k 2 month ago and I like it smile.gif

I testing many motherboard : ASUS Maximus VI Hero / Gryphon / Z87X-OC / Z87-G45 and now I test over GIGABYTE MB.

My 4770K is good I think : 4.6GHz 1.18v Vcore but after is complicated... 1.24v for 4.7GHz, 1.32v for 4.8GHz and 1.40v for 4.9GHz boot but many BSOD ( 101 )

I always left the cover ratio at least 35 regardless of the CPU frequency, I have not found better performance by increasing the ratio.

My memory are G.skill TridentX 2 x 4GB 2666MHz 2800MHz which take without changing

I'm looking for advice hope lower Vcore to 4.7 or 4.8

In advance thank you to all.
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