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Haswell Overclocking Guide [With Statistics] - Page 361

post #3601 of 19637
Thats fair; I will search out more information to bring you: But as far as JJ, it was on a Newegg vid where they spent an hour with the Asus Maximus Extreme board; I think it was in the last 20 min or so they spent about 2 minutes or so talking about that.. here is the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ub6WnHmiIOs

Take a few to watch, it's on the 4770K; Has some cool info if nothing else... Since it;'s "new" then it would be a good idea for people to watch. A whole bunch on voltages, terms on the Asus boards.
post #3602 of 19637
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by imaghost03214 View Post

Thats fair; I will search out more information to bring you: But as far as JJ, it was on a Newegg vid where they spent an hour with the Asus Maximus Extreme board; I think it was in the last 20 min or so they spent about 2 minutes or so talking about that.. here is the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ub6WnHmiIOs

Take a few to watch, it's on the 4770K; Has some cool info if nothing else... Since it;'s "new" then it would be a good idea for people to watch. A whole bunch on voltages, terms on the Asus boards.

 

Many of us have seen that video. He talks about it at 36:00. He never says why, he only says "it's not validated". In other words, he doesn't know but wants to be extra safe. I'm not even 100% sure what "validated" means, he didn't say any CPU could die or have died. And then he says "If you want to run it, go ahead, just keep in mind there might be other variables in play". He was talking about how Old prime doesn't recognize what cpu Haswell is, this is expected because when 27.9 was out Haswell didn't exist. That doesn't tell me if the test is not stressing enough, too stressful, harmful, or anything really. He also recommended waiting for newer version. As far as I know, newest Prime isn't somehow less prone to hurting Haswell, in fact it's more intensive, more heat, more everything. Which is good if you're looking for that but doesn't make the argument for Prime breaking Haswell, even JJ didn't mention that.

 

For me to very seriously take claims of Prime hurting Prime I need one claim with concrete evidence, not multiple claims of possibility of injury, with each explaination different and without evidence. Of all the videos I've watched JJ on Haswell OC, I have never heard anything about hyperthreading and Prime issues. If JJ was quite sure Prime is harmful, he would have talked more about it, listing the times CPUs died in his testing (he helped OC many chips IIRC) instead of saying 'well just to be 100% safe, this IS a 300 dollar chip after all'.


Edited by Darkwizzie - 10/7/13 at 1:35am
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post #3603 of 19637
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceman View Post

I'm sorry, but this makes no sense at all. Offering out of order instructions, or whatever it is that Prime95 may or may not be doing, is not going to damage the processor. It may cause damage because of high heat caused by the processor load, but no instruction set or program is going to damage internal components on its own.

Intel's own Extreme Tuning Utility uses Prime95 internally, so if it was so bad why would Intel be using it in their own program?

I said version of Prime95... It was version 27 that was mentioned bout issues. Now if there is a later version, then it could be alright now and Intel may have changed the version or made changes within Prime v27. Check the pic below, as I mentioned before that was 6 weeks ago.

post #3604 of 19637
Go to minute 53 and listen from there
post #3605 of 19637
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by imaghost03214 View Post

Go to minute 53 and listen from there

 

He just suggested adding more voltage for stability. This had nothing to do with death of CPU... He even mentions another test while he was talking about Prime... Aida I think? In that context, "failure" clearly meant "failing the stress test".

 

What does that have to do with Prime SPECIFICALLY killing chips?

Nothing on hyperthreading and Prime causing death of course.

It also won't make sense for JJ to be so mild on Prime if it can kill chips, and then let the cannon loose the second time around on Prime.


Edited by Darkwizzie - 10/7/13 at 1:42am
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post #3606 of 19637
You're right that he never said it would die... but why risk running a single instruction set program, unvalidated for that CPU/program and risk it? Just seems a gamble to me. It's rather late now and I am finished up this semester for school... I am killed and going to bed. I appreciate the contemption for debate on this issue and I when I wake up I will seek out my sources and will get back to you on this. One part of it too, I guess is where one instruction set or another may ramp up one part of a cpu and could cause issues that way. I will certainly have to dig on this and bring you more info.

I will get in contact with Intel and see which version they are including now with Intel exteme tuning, because I also have that program; But the thing with it to answer your question, I am not even sure it was designed for mult-threaded cpus, but more for Ivy bridge 4 core/thread. Will give ya more info tomarrow.

Thanks guys and enjoy the morning.

Matthew
post #3607 of 19637
Quote:
Originally Posted by imaghost03214 View Post

You're right that he never said it would die... but why risk running a single instruction set program, unvalidated for that CPU/program and risk it? Just seems a gamble to me. It's rather late now and I am finished up this semester for school... I am killed and going to bed. I appreciate the contemption for debate on this issue and I when I wake up I will seek out my sources and will get back to you on this. One part of it too, I guess is where one instruction set or another may ramp up one part of a cpu and could cause issues that way. I will certainly have to dig on this and bring you more info.

I will get in contact with Intel and see which version they are including now with Intel exteme tuning, because I also have that program; But the thing with it to answer your question, I am not even sure it was designed for mult-threaded cpus, but more for Ivy bridge 4 core/thread. Will give ya more info tomarrow.

Thanks guys and enjoy the morning.

Matthew

Overclocking is a gamble. That's what the intel tuning plan is for. You don't buy an unlocked processor to play it safe.
post #3608 of 19637
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameyscott View Post

Overclocking is a gamble. That's what the intel tuning plan is for. You don't buy an unlocked processor to play it safe.

I agree, totally; But no need risking on any software thats not been optimized for the cpu you have. As you've said, OCing is a gamble. No need to make odds worse.
post #3609 of 19637
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by imaghost03214 View Post

You're right that he never said it would die... but why risk running a single instruction set program, unvalidated for that CPU/program and risk it? Just seems a gamble to me. It's rather late now and I am finished up this semester for school... I am killed and going to bed. I appreciate the contemption for debate on this issue and I when I wake up I will seek out my sources and will get back to you on this. One part of it too, I guess is where one instruction set or another may ramp up one part of a cpu and could cause issues that way. I will certainly have to dig on this and bring you more info.

I will get in contact with Intel and see which version they are including now with Intel exteme tuning, because I also have that program; But the thing with it to answer your question, I am not even sure it was designed for mult-threaded cpus, but more for Ivy bridge 4 core/thread. Will give ya more info tomarrow.

Thanks guys and enjoy the morning.

Matthew

 

Alright, let us know what you find.

I hope you understand, I bothered to run this thread and maintain the statistics because there is a lot of false data on Haswells right now. Prime is a very common stress test used according to my statistic. I have not had reports of CPU death due to Prime. So far in every single CPU death either there was a delid involved, or some ridiculous, off the wall voltage. Before I let out the alarms I need solid evidence. A similar issue occurred with the 1:1 cache ratio. People heard, assumed, and then 1:1 or "cache bottlenecking" advice abound. Thankfully I can easily demonstrate the cache problem is theoretical what ifs that don't hold up to real world tests.

 

It's a bit easier to argue staying safe from Prime if nobody has ever used Prime on Haswell, but that's not the case. Others are fine. So your claim goes against everything I've experienced, read, and logged. Therefore I'm not so inclined to believe Prime causes death.

 

On top of that, if we're going to play safe and ignore Prime because there is an assertion against it made with no evidence, you give credence to anybody that wants to make a claim about any other stress test...


Edited by Darkwizzie - 10/7/13 at 1:55am
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post #3610 of 19637
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post

Alright, let us know what you find.
I hope you understand, I bothered to run this thread and maintain the statistics because there is a lot of false data on Haswells right now. Prime is a very common stress test used according to my statistic. I have not had reports of CPU death due to Prime. So far in every single CPU death either there was a delid involved, or some ridiculous, off the wall voltage. Before I let out the alarms I need solid evidence. A similar issue occurred with the 1:1 cache ratio. People heard, assumed, and then 1:1 or "cache bottlenecking" advice abound. Thankfully I can easily demonstrate the cache problem is theoretical what ifs that don't hold up to real world tests.

It's a bit easier to argue staying safe from Prime if nobody has ever used Prime on Haswell, but that's not the case. Others are fine. So your claim goes against everything I've experienced, read, and logged. Therefore I'm not so inclined to believe Prime causes death.

On top of that, if we're going to play safe and ignore Prime because a guy said it might be bad based on no evidence, you give credence to anybody that wants to make a claim about any other stress test...

I agree and respect that; with that said, please don't read too far into what I have said and think I posted that it would kill it; I have been using prime for a very long time now and up till this 4770K, never had any issues. But with the way it acts on prime, I began to wonder so I searched out info; And collectively, the various sources, just like JJ, don't recommend running it until the program is updated for Haswell. I'd heard it once before but like you, I never really gave no thought to it, and took the stand you do for it. Then I began to see a post here, a post there about it causing problems; With that said NOT ONCE have I seen or heard of it killing a cpu; I know sometimes even experts are wrong... so I take what these guys say and try to seek out my own research. It's just been acting funny on my CPU, and quite by accident, what started this all off with me was that video. So I spoke to Intel, people over at Prime, and some programmers I know. From what I can see, one of the issues that may be an immediate fault is just the heat that it drives from within. Obviously anything with heat in a cpu is a problem, so maybe that was the issue; thats been weeks ago and I am unsure if things have changed. As promised, I will seek out what I can find from the people I know and I will PM you with the data. If it's anything you can use, then great. If not, well it's worth checking everything out with a magnifying glass... including questions and issues posted, such as mine.

Have a good one.. I'm off~
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