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Haswell Overclocking Guide [With Statistics] - Page 395

post #3941 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post

I thought past 100C due to throttling it stays at 100Cish?

Mine 4670K never went over 100C. The point of throttling was around 99C or 100C and that prevented higher temperatures (there was no throttling at 97C and 98C - though I didn't test much at those temperatures, was afraid of degradation). There was no error or reboot at this temperature, I just stopped with the stress test manually.
Edited by tomlev5 - 10/17/13 at 2:56am
post #3942 of 19539
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomlev5 View Post


Mine 4670K never went over 100C. The point of throttling was around 99C or 100C and that prevented higher temperatures (there was no throttling at 97C and 98C - though I didn't test much at those temperatures, was afraid of degradation).

That's why I was quoting the other guy who said 100C+.

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post #3943 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by amd955be5670 View Post

A question, what is the throttling temperature for haswell?

What should my thermal cut-off be for overheat protection?

What do you mean by cut-off. Is there some setting in bios that sets automatic shut down at defined temperature?

Or is there some way to lower throttling temperature. That feature would bi nice, you could stress test with latest linpack at 1.35 V and not worry about degradation).

Did somebody try with long periods of stress testing on 100C temperatures (is this suicide or not)?
post #3944 of 19539
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomlev5 View Post


What do you mean by cut-off. Is there some setting in bios that sets automatic shut down at defined temperature?

Or is there some way to lower throttling temperature. That feature would bi nice, you could stress test with latest linpack at 1.35 V and not worry about degradation).

Did somebody try with long periods of stress testing on 100C temperatures (is this suicide or not)?

Not sure if it's suicide but I'm not willing to do that to my CPU for the purpose of figuring if anything would happen, lol.

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post #3945 of 19539
Quote:
Or is there some way to lower throttling temperature. That feature would bi nice, you could stress test with latest linpack at 1.35 V and not worry about degradation).

I've had success with turbo power limit; can set it up to trip and drop cpu to 3.5ghz if you hit a power threshhold that you only hit in synthetics; but in the end, if you only hit it in synthetics, what's the point? You can't use them as a stress test and you wouldn't run them anyway
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post #3946 of 19539
Hey guys,

New here, and to the Intel overclocking scene ( I'm over from the guys at AMD tongue.gif ) but not new to overclocking. After I got my chip, I was just testing the waters for my 4670K. This is what I could come up with for a 24x7 stable run. Going to go higher soon, once I understand this better.

Username: Shanenanigans
CPU Model: i5 4670K
Core Multiplier: 42x
CPU VID: 1.132v ( Gigabyte Z87-D3HP, LLC set to High )
Vcore: 1.152v under load.
VRIN: 1.86v
Uncore Multiplier: 39x
Uncore Voltage: 1.15v
Cooling Solution: Stock Intel ( temp )
Stability Test: IBT High
Batch Number: 314 Malay
Ram Speed: Hyper X DDR3 1600 XMP ( 9-9-9-27-1T ) @ 1.660v in BIOS ( 1.656v )

So far, this nets me decent temperatures of ~65-70C while playing CSGO, which is the highest load I'll have. IBT is about 85C IINM. I'm very tempted to drop my uncore over to stock, so I don't have to mess with the cache voltage at all. If this will get me lower temperatures, I have more headroom with the stock Intel cooler till I get another cooler.

I have a few questions.

1) Uncore can be left at stock with the stock 1.05v for lower temps right? How much bandwidth/performance will I be sacrificing in CPU dependent games like CS:GO?
2) Will reducing Uncore allow me to drop my CPU voltage further?
3) I just read this morning somewhere that using XMP adds voltage to the stock vcore. Might've been on here or XS. Can't remember. Can anyone confirm this?
4) Also, many are saying stock vcore is dependent on how good the CPU is. For example mine's 1.08v, but I booted into Windows today at 4.7 Ghz with ~1.35v VID.
5) What is this thing about not running memory at 1.65v? Can anyone explain how long it'll take for this IMC degradation to occur?

Some Observations I made ( Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, since I'm trying to learn )

- The stock cooler can handle upto 1.16v-1.17v VCore and end up with temps in the low 70Cs at regular load ( not stress load )
- Depending on the motherboard and BIOS, keeping the vcore as normal/stock ( my GBT has the Normal setting ) and using an offset results in the correct VCore in CPUZ but it effectively turns adaptive voltage on.
- The levels of LLC behave weirdly on the Gigabyte Z87-D3HP. In the sense that High and Turbo give slight additional voltage but so does the Extreme setting ( by the same amount ) which is weird especially considering that it's supposed to be the closest to the VID set in BIOS. For reference Standard --> Normal --> Low --> Medium --> High --> Turbo --> Extreme are the VRIN LLC levels.
- Depending on your chip, you may not require the VRIN to go all that much more higher to get a stable speed.
- Haswell is more reactive to voltages than speeds.
- Also, my CPU wouldn't boot at 4.4 ( 44x100 ) but I found out that this was because my voltages were too low.
- If you get a 124 BSOD, it usually means there's a voltage that's too low. You gotta start bumping them up.
- Personally, I feel that going over half an hour of Prime loading is a waste of time for stability, UNLESS you're going to literally load your cores for longer using AVX.
- Also, AVX cranks up the temps on Haswell like crazy.

Please correct me if I'm wrong and such; I'm trying to learn the right way, since the last 4+ Ghz OC I did was my Phenom II x2 550BE unlocked on Air.
Edited by Shanenanigans - 10/17/13 at 4:11am
post #3947 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomlev5 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by amd955be5670 View Post

A question, what is the throttling temperature for haswell?

What should my thermal cut-off be for overheat protection?

What do you mean by cut-off. Is there some setting in bios that sets automatic shut down at defined temperature?

Or is there some way to lower throttling temperature. That feature would bi nice, you could stress test with latest linpack at 1.35 V and not worry about degradation).

Did somebody try with long periods of stress testing on 100C temperatures (is this suicide or not)?

Let me expand on my question.

First I want to know at what temperatures does haswel start downclocking the cpu cores (google claims 95c)

Second I want to know the maximum safe 24/7 operating temperature. coretemp can be configured to shutdown/react to a certain temperature threshold, thus I wanted to know a safe cut-off from the overclockers.

Right now my chip gets to 71c in gaming. Tested Crysis 3, I believe this is the most cpu-intensive game I have.
If the gpu is not stressed, then the max, like cinebench, is 66c.
Stays mostly in the upper 50s during other normal games.
post #3948 of 19539
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanenanigans View Post

Hey guys,

New here, and to the Intel overclocking scene ( I'm over from the guys at AMD tongue.gif ) but not new to overclocking. After I got my chip, I was just testing the waters for my 4670K. This is what I could come up with for a 24x7 stable run. Going to go higher soon, once I understand this better.

Username: Shanenanigans
CPU Model: i5 4670K
Core Multiplier: 42x
CPU VID: 1.132v ( Gigabyte Z87-D3HP, LLC set to High )
Vcore: 1.152v under load.
VRIN: 1.86v
Uncore Multiplier: 39x
Uncore Voltage: 1.15v
Cooling Solution: Stock Intel ( temp )
Stability Test: IBT High
Batch Number: 314 Malay
Ram Speed: Hyper X DDR3 1600 XMP ( 9-9-9-27-1T ) @ 1.660v in BIOS ( 1.656v )

So far, this nets me decent temperatures of ~65-70C while playing CSGO, which is the highest load I'll have. IBT is about 85C IINM. I'm very tempted to drop my uncore over to stock, so I don't have to mess with the cache voltage at all. If this will get me lower temperatures, I have more headroom with the stock Intel cooler till I get another cooler.

I have a few questions.

1) Uncore can be left at stock with the stock 1.05v for lower temps right? How much bandwidth/performance will I be sacrificing in CPU dependent games like CS:GO?
2) Will reducing Uncore allow me to drop my CPU voltage further?
3) I just read this morning somewhere that using XMP adds voltage to the stock vcore. Might've been on here or XS. Can't remember. Can anyone confirm this?
4) Also, many are saying stock vcore is dependent on how good the CPU is. For example mine's 1.08v, but I booted into Windows today at 4.7 Ghz with ~1.35v VID.
5) What is this thing about not running memory at 1.65v? Can anyone explain how long it'll take for this IMC degradation to occur?

Some Observations I made ( Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, since I'm trying to learn )

- The stock cooler can handle upto 1.16v-1.17v VCore and end up with temps in the low 70Cs at regular load ( not stress load )
- Depending on the motherboard and BIOS, keeping the vcore as normal/stock ( my GBT has the Normal setting ) and using an offset results in the correct VCore in CPUZ but it effectively turns adaptive voltage on.
- The levels of LLC behave weirdly on the Gigabyte Z87-D3HP. In the sense that High and Turbo give slight additional voltage but so does the Extreme setting ( by the same amount ) which is weird especially considering that it's supposed to be the closest to the VID set in BIOS. For reference Standard --> Normal --> Low --> Medium --> High --> Turbo --> Extreme are the VRIN LLC levels.
- Depending on your chip, you may not require the VRIN to go all that much more higher to get a stable speed.
- Haswell is more reactive to voltages than speeds.
- Also, my CPU wouldn't boot at 4.4 ( 44x100 ) but I found out that this was because my voltages were too low.
- If you get a 124 BSOD, it usually means there's a voltage that's too low. You gotta start bumping them up.
- Personally, I feel that going over half an hour of Prime loading is a waste of time for stability, UNLESS you're going to literally load your cores for longer using AVX.
- Also, AVX cranks up the temps on Haswell like crazy.

Please correct me if I'm wrong and such; I'm trying to learn the right way, since the last 4+ Ghz OC I did was my Phenom II x2 550BE unlocked on Air.

Dropping uncore from overclocked all the way to stock manually will drop probably drop 5C max. Don't expect night and day cooldown by doing so. As I showed in my chart on the first page, the performance sacrifice is practically none. In chess, 100mhz core increase led to 3% faster calculation speed. I remember that 0.7ghz uncore change is about 0.05ghz core change. So a 1.4ghz uncore overclock will roughly be same as 3% faster at chess.

 

tl;dr: Uncore doesn't do much for performance.

 

For the second point, doubtful. Possible, but doubtful. You overclock core first and uncore second, so the point doesn't matter.

 

XMP adding Vcore, never heard of it. Maybe somebody else has.

 

Yes, some people do that as a quick benchmark of how good the CPU is. I'm not big into that because nothing tells you h ow good your CPU overclocks  like actually overclocking it. Unless you're thinking of swapping CPUs until you find a better chip. 

 

The 1.65v degradation is complete bogus crap, many, many members have already replied talking about how wrong that is. It's just a deluded member on the forums spreading hooey when a bazillion people have already run 1.65v and way beyond that for Sandy, Ivy, and now Haswell. When pressed for ACTUAL evidence beyond "he said she said", the member couldn't offer up anything.

 

Not sure about stock cooler, if you're getting the k model I'd think you'd at least get hyper evo.

 

Haswell's temperatures are much more reactive to voltage than clock speed.

 

AVX synthetic tests tend to ramp up the temps. Actually encoding x264 videos via AVX in real life doesn't really elevate temps beyond what you'd expect at all. The x264 benchmark/stress test is based more on real life encoding, and is more non-synethetic, therefore no major elevation of temps, no ridiculouos elevation of voltage like you'd see on synthetic with adaptive. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by amd955be5670 View Post


Let me expand on my question.

First I want to know at what temperatures does haswel start downclocking the cpu cores (google claims 95c)

Second I want to know the maximum safe 24/7 operating temperature. coretemp can be configured to shutdown/react to a certain temperature threshold, thus I wanted to know a safe cut-off from the overclockers.

Right now my chip gets to 71c in gaming. Tested Crysis 3, I believe this is the most cpu-intensive game I have.
If the gpu is not stressed, then the max, like cinebench, is 66c.
Stays mostly in the upper 50s during other normal games.

To be safe, under 95C in stress, under 90 or 85C for daily use.


Edited by Darkwizzie - 10/17/13 at 4:29am
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post #3949 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanenanigans View Post

I have a few questions.

1) Uncore can be left at stock with the stock 1.05v for lower temps right? How much bandwidth/performance will I be sacrificing in CPU dependent games like CS:GO?
2) Will reducing Uncore allow me to drop my CPU voltage further?
3) I just read this morning somewhere that using XMP adds voltage to the stock vcore. Might've been on here or XS. Can't remember. Can anyone confirm this?
4) Also, many are saying stock vcore is dependent on how good the CPU is. For example mine's 1.08v, but I booted into Windows today at 4.7 Ghz with ~1.35v VID.
5) What is this thing about not running memory at 1.65v? Can anyone explain how long it'll take for this IMC degradation to occur?

Based on my experience:
1) I had to raise uncore voltage at stock uncore to around 1.15 (it looks like overclocked core means more stress for the uncore), but perhaps that's because I have a bad CPU overclocker
2) Perhaps just a little bit (a decrease of 0.01 or 0.02 V - because lower uncore bottlenecks CPU in some cases)
3) I can confirm this on my Z87-A. Stock Vcore vas around 1.1. When I set XMP in UEFI with core frequency to 3800 I got 1.2 V VCore.
4,5) no evidence (no statistics)
post #3950 of 19539
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomlev5 View Post



2) Perhaps just a little bit (a decrease of 0.01 or 0.02 V - because lower uncore bottlenecks CPU in some cases)
4,5) no evidence (no statistics)

Lower uncore bottlenecks?
How low? And :gotproof:

I tested all the way to stock uncore, nothing close to a bottleneck.

 

If one is going to trip out over 1.65v ram, then one might as well not overclock the CPU out of fear...

Undelwalt (2017)
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Samsung 950 Pro 512gb (Undelwalt) WD Red 2tb (Pack Yak II) Seagate Expansion Drive 5tb (Phoenix Down II) 3x560mm HardwareLabs Nemesis GTX 
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XPSC Raystorm Pro Watercool Heatkiller 1080ti Full Cover Waterblock EK XTOP Revo Dual D5 (Serial, PWM, v4) EK ZMT (1/2 - 3/4 ID OD) 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
14xEK ACF (Compression Fittings) EK x4 250 (v2) Distilled Water + PT Nuke (Copper Sulphate) 24x140mm Silent Wings 3 
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Windows 10 Pro 64bit Catleap 27 Inch 2560x1440 IPS 60hz Display Coolermaster Storm Trigger (Brown Switches) EVGA P2 1000w 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair Air 540 Logitech G Pro Tek Syndicate "Raze the World" Desk Mat O2 + Odac by Mayflower Electronics (Rev A) 
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Sennheiser HD 800 2xKrk Rokit 6 G2 Blue Yeti (Grey) Rode PSA-1 Arm 
Other
Aquaero 6 LT + Aluminum Heatsink 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 6600k Delid @ 4.848/4.848 Asus z170 Hero MSI GTX 980ti @ 1499/4082 1.25v/134% Power 2 x 8gb Gskills Ripjaws V 3131 16-16-16-32 
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Samsung Pro Series 840 256gb (Celapaleis) 1 TB Samsung Drive (Pack Yak) Samsung Pro Series 850 256gb (Celapaleis Reprise) Phoenix Down (External Backup) 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Noctua D14 Kraken x61 Push-Pull for GPU Windows 10 Pro Catleap 2560x1440 @ 60hz 
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Undelwalt (2017)
(29 items)
 
 
Celapaleis (2013)
(16 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
7600k @ 5.197/1.392 1.392v z170 Asus Hero EVGA 1080ti SC Black (2100/6250) x2 8gb GSkill Trident Z 3600 @ 3804 15-15-15-32-2T 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 950 Pro 512gb (Undelwalt) WD Red 2tb (Pack Yak II) Seagate Expansion Drive 5tb (Phoenix Down II) 3x560mm HardwareLabs Nemesis GTX 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
XPSC Raystorm Pro Watercool Heatkiller 1080ti Full Cover Waterblock EK XTOP Revo Dual D5 (Serial, PWM, v4) EK ZMT (1/2 - 3/4 ID OD) 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
14xEK ACF (Compression Fittings) EK x4 250 (v2) Distilled Water + PT Nuke (Copper Sulphate) 24x140mm Silent Wings 3 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 10 Pro 64bit Catleap 27 Inch 2560x1440 IPS 60hz Display Coolermaster Storm Trigger (Brown Switches) EVGA P2 1000w 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair Air 540 Logitech G Pro Tek Syndicate "Raze the World" Desk Mat O2 + Odac by Mayflower Electronics (Rev A) 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Sennheiser HD 800 2xKrk Rokit 6 G2 Blue Yeti (Grey) Rode PSA-1 Arm 
Other
Aquaero 6 LT + Aluminum Heatsink 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 6600k Delid @ 4.848/4.848 Asus z170 Hero MSI GTX 980ti @ 1499/4082 1.25v/134% Power 2 x 8gb Gskills Ripjaws V 3131 16-16-16-32 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Samsung Pro Series 840 256gb (Celapaleis) 1 TB Samsung Drive (Pack Yak) Samsung Pro Series 850 256gb (Celapaleis Reprise) Phoenix Down (External Backup) 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Noctua D14 Kraken x61 Push-Pull for GPU Windows 10 Pro Catleap 2560x1440 @ 60hz 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
CM Storm Trigger Brown Switches EVGA Supernova 1000w P2 Corsair 540 Air Razer Abyssus 
Mouse PadAudioAudioAudio
Steelseries QcK Mini Blue Yeti Microphone Objective Dac + Amp Sescom AB Switch 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Krk Rokit 6 G2 x2 Radioshack Ground Loop Isolator (For Rokits) Wooaudio Aluminum Headphone Stand Sennheiser HD 800 
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Logitech c920 Webcam NZXT Sentry Mix 2 Fan Controller 
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