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post #4851 of 19637
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty Mac View Post

Apparently I may have a less than average chip then. When I first tried 4.2ghz, I left the vcore on adaptive. ( or auto, not sure). Bsod after welcome screen. I set it to 1.20v and ran good. Looked at CPUz and voltage was like 1.199. Tried 4.3ghz yesterday at 1.225 and bsod after welcome screen. (Could've sworn I typed this already wink.gif) looked in bios, voltage was at1.232v. I set at 1.235v and good. Just boss after the xtu test. Not set on adaptive. I thought it was supposed to be OC one thing at a time? Idk, I'm still a noob. I'll believe results. Personally I don't like stressing for hours.. But IF it helps for stability I'll do it. I'm getting all confused again lol

Can you tell me your load temps with ambients when you get to 1.3v? I'm planning on getting the Evo in a week or so.

And 1.2v and 1.25v actually. Please. Appreciate it.
Edited by Shanenanigans - 11/1/13 at 10:33pm
post #4852 of 19637
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanenanigans View Post

Either way, whether or not there's a bottleneck, increasing vRING does add stability whether you like it or not. And for your charts, ideally, you should run the tests at least 4 times ( like on review sites ) but 10 times to be sure, and to kick out any outliers.

For reference

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?266589-The-OverClockers-BSOD-code-list

A 124 BSOD is usually related to vcore or QPI/VTT ( which for haswell, would be IMC voltage and L3 cache voltage, which is vRING )
I can't argue with either one of you so I'll keep my eyes peeled. So if it is my vring, causing bsod, do I stop upping the core voltage and start upping the ring multi and voltage? (I'm pretty sure there is a guide with this answer in it somewhere lol)
post #4853 of 19637
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanenanigans View Post

Either way, whether or not there's a bottleneck, increasing vRING does add stability whether you like it or not. And for your charts, ideally, you should run the tests at least 4 times ( like on review sites ) but 10 times to be sure, and to kick out any outliers.

For reference

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?266589-The-OverClockers-BSOD-code-list

A 124 BSOD is usually related to vcore or QPI/VTT ( which for haswell, would be IMC voltage and L3 cache voltage, which is vRING )
Hmm, this might help with my 4.8Ghz OC because I've followed the scaling on my chip and no dice. Upped the VRIN after an x101 and the back to X124 even with about .01 more than my scaling. I'll be testing this once the loop is leak tested Sunday night.
post #4854 of 19637
My
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanenanigans View Post

Can you tell me your load temps with ambients when you get to 1.3v? I'm planning on getting the Evo in a week or so.

And 1.2v and 1.25v actually. Please. Appreciate it.

Well ambient temps.. Not sure.. But I'm bios and idle, mid to high 20's and sometimes low 30's. It's getting cold out so I don't have ac on. Highest my tens have gotten with xtu was like 62. That was yesterday. I'm also using a push/pull configuration. Replaced the stock evo fan with 2 sickle flow cm fans. All in all.. The cooler isn't bad at all. Definitely better than the stock lol. I never even put the stock heatsink in this build at all.
post #4855 of 19637
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty Mac View Post

My
Well ambient temps.. Not sure.. But I'm bios and idle, mid to high 20's and sometimes low 30's. It's getting cold out so I don't have ac on. Highest my tens have gotten with xtu was like 62. That was yesterday. I'm also using a push/pull configuration. Replaced the stock evo fan with 2 sickle flow cm fans. All in all.. The cooler isn't bad at all. Definitely better than the stock lol. I never even put the stock heatsink in this build at all.

Well, the reason I'm asking is for a delta over ambient. Because during the summer, my ambients are around 30-32C. If they go higher, I turn on the aircon. But in the in winter, my ambients are in the low 20s. However, this is my first winter here and since temps of 4-5C are a regularity outside, I'll need to check again.

I want to see how much the Evo is able to successfully dissipate when it comes to an overclocked 4670k at a specified voltage ( considering the 4770k generates more heat with HT on at similar voltages )

And from everywhere I've read, push-pull doesn't really make much of a difference ( 1-2C ) on an Evo.
post #4856 of 19637
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanenanigans View Post


Either way, whether or not there's a bottleneck, increasing vRING does add stability whether you like it or not. And for your charts, ideally, you should run the tests at least 4 times ( like on review sites ) but 10 times to be sure, and to kick out any outliers.

For reference

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?266589-The-OverClockers-BSOD-code-list

A 124 BSOD is usually related to vcore or QPI/VTT ( which for haswell, would be IMC voltage and L3 cache voltage, which is vRING )

Nope. My tests have been proven over and over by various members. The issue of uncore bottleneck is completely disproven. There is no debate left over. I've done the uncore tests multiple times as well. You're not the first to try to disprove my stance on uncore bottleneck.

 

Yes we've seen the 124 bsod list, but for Haswell it can go either way. I've hit 124 myself with stock uncore @ 1.2v Vring, fixed with higher core voltage (or was it input voltage, I forgot which).

 

 

About vRing offering better stability despite stock uncore that is why I'm asking, maybe I just suggest uncore voltage @ 1.2v with uncore at stock as the starting procedure.

 

If you have such huge issues with my guide and my guide's credibility perhaps it would've been best to address then the first time you entered the thread. I'm not saying this as any sort of attack, I'm simply saying, the idea that uncore is useless for performance is a very central concept in this thread and the way my guide operates. Let's get the elephant in the room out first!

 

I admit you may very well be right about the Vring requirement @ stock uncore. Personally I see no evidence of this on my CPU but 1-2 people have reported it. Be nice if I got more reports from different sources however.


Edited by Darkwizzie - 11/1/13 at 10:53pm
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post #4857 of 19637
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post

Nope. My tests have been proven over and over by various members. The issue of uncore bottleneck is completely disproven. There is no debate left over. I've done the uncore tests multiple times as well. You're not the first to try to disprove my stance on uncore bottleneck.

Yes we've seen the 124 bsod list, but for Haswell it can go either way. I've hit 124 myself with stock uncore @ 1.2v Vring, fixed with higher core voltage (or was it input voltage, I forgot which).


About vRing offering better stability despite stock uncore that is why I'm asking, maybe I just suggest uncore voltage @ 1.2v with uncore at stock as the starting procedure.

If you have such huge issues with my guide and my guide's credibility perhaps it would've been best to address then the first time you entered the thread. I'm not saying this as any sort of attack, I'm simply saying, the idea that uncore is useless for performance is a very central concept in this thread and the way my guide operates. Let's get the elephant in the room out first!

I admit you may very well be right about the Vring requirement @ stock uncore. Personally I see no evidence of this on my CPU but 1-2 people have reported it. Be nice if I got more reports from different sources however.

I'm not saying anything about your guide at all actually. I used a different guide to learn ( Tom's Hardware's Intel God's quick and dirty guide, and the Gigabyte Haswell OC guide ) but I came to this thread to test and look at the variances in overclocking methods and such and to have discussions about this much like what we're having.

If uncore was useless for performance, overclockers ( including the extreme OCers ) wouldn't bother increasing it to get better performance out of it. Uncore controls the information speed between buses so I do believe it's necessary to keep it with spitting distance of CPU speed. If you want tests that show the difference with uncore speeds, just do a SuperPi 32M run ( about 6-8 minutes of your time ) and you'll see the difference.

Like I said, I started out with higher voltages and slowly started dropping them down while testing for stability. My current settings of 4.2 CPU/ 3.9 Uncore with 1.86v VRIN, 1.135 VID+High LLC (~1.15v Vcore ), 1.18v vRING is 2 hours prime stable with XMP and RAM voltage at 1.656v ( stupid droop, setting 1.65v results in 1.644v ). I could go higher, but my cooler is keeping me back.

---

As for your 124 BSOD, like I mentioned earlier, it could be related to vCore, vRING or VRIN. But leaving your vRING at stock, and continually increasing vCore to 1.3-1.4v thinking you'll get 4.2Ghz stable is quite stupid, as I'm sure you'd agree. Haswell is a different beast when compared even to Ivy Bridge. You can't just get away with increasing vCore anymore. VRING and RING make a difference too.
Edited by Shanenanigans - 11/1/13 at 11:15pm
post #4858 of 19637
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post

Can you do more tests with those two settings? For example when I was testing Vrin I did 5 tests each.

sure, what kind of test do you want me to do ?
what kind of test did you run?
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post #4859 of 19637
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanenanigans View Post


I'm not saying anything about your guide at all actually. I used a different guide to learn ( Tom's Hardware's Intel God's quick and dirty guide, and the Gigabyte Haswell OC guide ) but I came to this thread to test and look at the variances in overclocking methods and such and to have discussions about this much like what we're having.

If uncore was useless for performance, overclockers ( including the extreme OCers ) wouldn't bother increasing it to get better performance out of it. Uncore controls the information speed between buses so I do believe it's necessary to keep it with spitting distance of CPU speed. If you want tests that show the difference with uncore speeds, just do a SuperPi 32M run ( about 6-8 minutes of your time ) and you'll see the difference.

Like I said, I started out with higher voltages and slowly started dropping them down while testing for stability. My current settings of 4.2 CPU/ 3.9 Uncore with 1.86v VRIN, 1.135 VID+High LLC (~1.15v Vcore ), 1.18v vRING is 2 hours prime stable with XMP and RAM voltage at 1.656v ( stupid droop, setting 1.65v results in 1.644v ). I could go higher, but my cooler is keeping me back.

---

As for your 124 BSOD, like I mentioned earlier, it could be related to vCore, vRING or VRIN. But leaving your vRING at stock, and continually increasing vCore to 1.3-1.4v thinking you'll get 4.2Ghz stable is quite stupid, as I'm sure you'd agree. Haswell is a different beast when compared even to Ivy Bridge. You can't just get away with increasing vCore anymore. VRING and RING make a difference too.

Not nessesarily. I got to 4.5ghz stable with stock VRing and stock uncore all the time. Never had any issues. Synthetic, gaming, basically everything stable.

 

You're doing what everybody else is doing: Assuming things without any evidence. That's how the whole 1:1 cache ratio myth came to be. Everybody is assuming things, theoretically you want 1:1, nobody actually bothered to go down and benchmark anything.

 

Yes, uncore DOES bump performance, but by such a small margin it's practically useless. If you're trying to reach the highest benchmark scores, OK I guess. But if you're trying to get 1 higher FPS, then heck no. Everybody wants to OC their uncore because it's a psychological thing. Until you offer substantial proof to falsify my entire guide, I hope you understand, from my perspective all you've done is made the same claim others have made without any evidence.

 

A difference is not the same as a difference that actually makes any sort of practical difference at all whatsoever. You didn't take shots at my guide, you are right. But it is as if you had done so. This entire thread of 5000 posts all revolve around my guide and my method of doing things. If you think I am profoundly mistaken then my entire guide is profoundly mistaken. It may not be your intention to even talk about my guide but in the end that's what the result would be. If I am wrong that indeed uncore is an important overclocking step, then I need to take immediate corrections on my guide because I would have misled so many people.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gero2013 View Post


sure, what kind of test do you want me to do ?
what kind of test did you run?

What kind of test did I run for what? If you're talking about uncore performance, that can be found on the first page. Other members have done their own uncore tests but for the sake of not repeating the same thing again and again I didn't post those. They are now lost in the limbo that is 'somewhere in the middle of this thread'. :D

For your tests, just do whatever you did, just repeat more times, that's all.


Edited by Darkwizzie - 11/1/13 at 11:43pm
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post #4860 of 19637
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post

What kind of test did I run for what? If you're talking about uncore performance, that can be found on the first page. Other members have done their own uncore tests but for the sake of not repeating the same thing again and again I didn't post those. They are now lost in the limbo that is 'somewhere in the middle of this thread'. biggrin.gif
For your tests, just do whatever you did, just repeat more times, that's all.


You mentioned you did 5 tests when you were testing VRIN.
Yeah I am not really talking about the uncore, basically im leaving it completely alone for now
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