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Haswell Overclocking Guide [With Statistics] - Page 573

post #5721 of 19566
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameyscott View Post

That's misinformation. I can push up to 1.4vcore with my custom loop and I'm not delidded.

Good to know, maybe my Raystorm isn't seated well so there isn't enough contact.
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post #5722 of 19566
Thread Starter 

Good evening guys.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by RushiMP View Post
 

Username: RushiMP
CPU Model: i7 4770k

Motherboard: Asus M6E

Ram: DDR3 2400
Core Multiplier: 48

CPU VID: 1.10 
Vcore: 1.375 (To be trimmed)
Input Voltage: 1.9
Uncore Multiplier: 45
Uncore Voltage: 1.3
Cooling Solution: Corsair H110
Stability Test: LinX 12GB 20 passses
Batch Number: 3325B488 Costa Rica

 

 

 

You will be charted soon, thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tatmMRKIV View Post

forsure.. I am very new to this splatform
still failing left and right personally...
ONLY Superpi profile can get into windows
anyone have any idea why that could be?
I basically set the default 4.6 to the same settings and even that doesn't work

I'm not sure what 'only Superpi profile can get into windows' actually means. What's a SuperPi profile? As far as I know it's an application that calculates Pi digits for benchmarking.

 

What is default 4.6 setting? Do you mean the mobo's default suggested settings for 4.6? Those probably won't work. Auto OC as far as I know goes up to like 4.0, 4.2 max and then it blows.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tatmMRKIV View Post


My problem is you keep trailing off in your guide and I don't understand over half the terminology.. Way diff on my ASRock than what you are saying... and I don't even know which voltage you are talking about in your guide.. What part of I don't understand ANY of the setytings or terms for those things..
One second you are talking about one thing then another..

What the guide says to do half the time doesn't correlate to my board

supposedly VID can be 1.1 but mine is not budging off 1.35 or whatever CPU core is on
I mean I am trying to figure out what value to enter for something then you go off and talk about cpu coolers or something... This guide is all over the place

There are many motherboards out there and each mobo manufactor seems to feel better about themselves if they used completely different terminology. That is the fault of Asrock, not me. I've tried to get Asus all set up in the guide. I remember replying to a post about weird voltages and settings, I think it was you. Like I said: What you need are in order of importance: Vcore (the voltage to the core), Core multiplier (Should be like x34, x40, x45, etc, making cpui 3.4, 4.0, 4.5ghz), VCCIN aka Vrin aka input voltage aka eventual output voltage (the total voltage drawn by the CPU, which needs to be manually raised when Vcore gets high).

 

Then you have the less important variables like Uncore/Cache Ratio/Ring Bus multiplier, which is like the core multiplier which should be set to x34 manually at the start of the overclock.

 

VID is the CPU Vcore as already mentioned in the guide. It is the Vcore value entered into the BIOS. Why would VID be at 1.1, ever?

 

The guide is tentative, it is IMO the best Haswell OC guide out there from what I've seen. There's a lot of misinfo out there.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tatmMRKIV View Post

he asked what my problem was . Freaking reading the guide
looking for the past day for a descent guide
I understand that he really isn't saying much in the guide

So I wrote the entire guide which by internet standards often calls for a hardcore chorus of 'tl;dr' and you say I'm not saying much? I *am* trying to help people, keeping up with 5000+ posts takes time a bit of understanding goes a long way.

 

Take a picture of your BIOS settings and we'll figure out what's what together.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by [CyGnus] View Post

You guys do realize that Darkwizzie did this guide as soon as Haswell showed up in that time there was close to nothing about these CPU's, This Guide toke time to do and dedication, if you guys think its not good and you can do better we are all thankful to that, but if the only thing you can do is complain... well lets just say there are better things to do with the time wasted on those posts.

I am not saying that all is 100% right, if you guys can help in any way i appreciate that and i am sure that Darkwizzie will to dont be like 99% of ppl who only talks and does nothing useful.

Yes, this was one of the first guides on here, I decided to make this as soon as I discovered too high uncore is useless and may actually cause instability. To be sure, many others would have discovered it eventually, but it was a nice discovery to be sure.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug2507 View Post

Think there's maybe 4 popular guides going about.

This one.
The gigabyte one in the same section as this.
Linus
Asus 3 step.

The 4 guides listed above near enough cover the same ground/say the same thing for OC'ing Haswell with a little variation between them. Try one, if it doesn't work for you then try another. BIOS terminology may be quite specific to each mobo but google has a lot of answers!

It'll also probably help having a read through this thread, the Gigabyte one, and maybe also the Haswell owners thread. There's a mountain of good info to help you get going between them. Lot's of different opinions, advice, idea's etc. Try a few of the suggestions folks have made and see how it goes. Just keep an eye on how much voltage you're using and temp the core's hitting. Plenty of info/discussion on what's deemed 'safe' as well.

smile.gif

I do want to cover all the mobo terminology though. I think it helps make the guide better.

Are you saying though, there are only four big Haswell OC forum threads? :h34r-smi

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameyscott View Post


I agree with this 100%. I've sent Darkwizzie a few suggestions for his guide through PMs and he's added a lot of info I thought would be useful to everyone. This guide may not be 100% perfect, but what the heck do you guys expect for something we still don't know everything about? And complaining that the guide doesn't have your mobo's info is not helpful to anyone. This is an overall guide to overclocking Haswell, not a guide to teach you how to use your motherboard. That is on your end to learn.

While it can be argued that way, that the person should learn their own mobo, I'm willing to help by adding the mobo terminologies to try to make the guide better for everyone. But it's hard to do that right now with the way he's presenting his issues: More on the guide not being good, less on the ACTUAL issue.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RushiMP View Post
 

I know one thing I have noticed recently that has not really been covered anywhere. On Asus motherboards, when you mess with the DIGI settings you can affect idle and load power draw by like 100 watts. I am still not sure which settings exactly these changes, might be worth exploring.

Can somebody else with the Asus mobo test this pl0x.

I think Forceman once said the power draw reading from software is often very unreliable though. Personally I have not tested this myself, I don't have the equipment.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by error-id10t View Post


Which one(s)? 100W differences imply large throttling and/or idle vs. load loads.

I've included below few minor suggestions to the guide. Nothing major, just clarifications.
  2cent suggestions (Click to show)
C states
Use program Cstates 1.2 or Realtemp. Realtemp 4 will show all the way to C10 (doesn't apply to Desktop) but version hasn't been published.

Overclocking section:

1. Set Uncore (AKA Ring Bus, Cache), maybe mention what the stock cache multi is on i5 and i7, it's not as obvious as it maybe should be.

2. Simplify RAM suggestion and merely say "put it to 1333Mhz", then do the next steps and then raise RAM etc.

3. -

4. Maybe suggest what users can try and raise if they run into problems. SA, IOD/IOA etc.

5. -

6. Mention again why and maybe specify AVX2, I find it raises the volts by ~0.8v.

1:1 myth section. I think you can simplify this and remove the fluff. You make the good points about doing it if possible but if not, then not lowering core etc, leave it at that.

Voltage Parameters section. You mention XTU, good idea would be to put a warning against Bench as it will raise the volts compared to Stress.

Couple of addtions:

- SVID will allow you to monitor Watts, regardless if it's accurate or not. Turning that off will not show anything useful.

- SVID (at least on my board) removes CPU Input Voltage / VCCIN and put it's to 1.82v, this does raise under AVX2 loads. You can put an offset to this however.

- LLC level 7 on ASUS pretty much nails VCCIN to what you put it in BIOS for both load / idle. LLC Auto = LLC 8.

- Initial (pre-OS) vs. Eventual (post-OS) loads.

- Stressing section for X264, maybe provide a link to newer encoder, v2377 is latest compared to 2200 provided in the bench script. Note that they will need to "re-work" the script slightly to get it working and rename the executable if they want to do this.

http://download.videolan.org/pub/videolan/x264/binaries/win64/

I'm also curious if anyone else can replicate the "too little VCCIN even though you're stable", may affect your performance problem. I know most here wouldn't see it as they have it high enough but once you start lowering it, you may remain stable but a program such as X264 will start reporting lower FPS. I did not see this in Cinebench as an example though.

I'll look into it. :typer:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belial View Post

what typically causes x101?

I passed 24 hours p95 max ram 28.1 with:
4.6ghz@1.45vcore/2.05vrin
4.4ghz/1.3uncore
2666 11-14-14-28-1t loose 2nds and 3rds timings 1.75v
+.15/+.15/+.15

I forgot to put on LLC and my RAM appears to have more headroom, so I'm testing:
4.6@1.4v/2v
4.4/1.3
2800 12-14-15-29-1t
+.2/+.2/+.2

but i keep getting x101 at the 3rd hour. The thing is, I also got it at 4.6@1.45v/2.05v No llc 2800 12-14-15-28 so I dont think its cpu or uncore in and of itself unless the higher ram speed somehow messes with them.

I mean could be anything but if anyone had some ponters I1d appreciate it. I feel like I heard x101 is uncore or something.

Welcome back, Belial.

From my personal experience with my CPU, at that voltage I need higher Vrin to be stable. For 1.35v, 1.95v was more than enough. At 1.42v my chip is starting to hurt and I need 2.15v to achieve the stability I"m looking for. Not the results I was expecting, but I ran many tests and it shows an increase in stability when my Vrin went up. Even when my voltage went to 1.5v Vcore, nothing changed until Vrin was raised.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrcbandit View Post

To overclock past 1.3 V vcore, is it pretty much a necessity to de-lid even with a custom water loop when hyper threading is enabled - I have a 360mm and 120 mm radiator for the CPU and a single GPU (290X)? I am not sure if something is wrong with my Raystorm (going to try remounting it), but at 1.3 V vcore I am already hitting 85-92 C with Prime95 (small FFT, 2nd iteration of blend), while Intel XTU is more around 65-74 C. My cooler does have some light scratches on the copper, but thermal paste (MX-4) should make that a non-issue.

 

I'm running 1.42v on 4670k, so no hyper-threading. I am getting under 80C on chess/x264. Gaming is even better. The boiling point for me is at 1.5v, that's when the CPU gets really hot even just doing chess/x264. And that's on Noctua d14. That's on air.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty Mac View Post


It took me a few reads thru his guide to understand it. Mainly because I really didn't understand my bios voltages. Now that I do, I can see where he is coming from. And with the help of many, especially Doug2507, I will be able to OC this complicated piece! If you have questions, ask. I have and I will still ask. So no need to cut on the guide. He does update it incase you haven't noticed. I appreciate ya Darkwizzie for writing it. @error-id10t, I'm my experience, XTU bench did NOT raise my voltages at all. In fact, it was spot on with what I had set in bios. My setting on override of course. I also ran it under adaptive too.. Really didn't change much at all. Definitely nothing to be concerned about.

Thanks bro.

 

 
 
Accidently running a synthetic on adaptive is not fatal if you realize what you've just done. But if you forget that fact and you leave your computer to let it stress, then that might cause issues. Don't forget, non-synthetics like x264 or chess do not raise the voltage much under adaptive.
 
 
I STILL have to test the stress tests to write more about them, lol.

Edited by Darkwizzie - 11/22/13 at 6:01pm
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post #5723 of 19566
Quote:
Originally Posted by error-id10t View Post


Which one(s)? 100W differences imply large throttling and/or idle vs. load loads.

I've included below few minor suggestions to the guide. Nothing major, just clarifications. 2cent suggestions (Click to show)
 

 

That is what I originally thought as well. I have to go through the settings, but all I can say is my UPS was reporting 200 watt loads, now it is almost 300 watts. That was by turning on all the Extreme modes, VRM frequency, etc. I will likely dial those items back from their highest settings after I am confident that I have 4.8 stable.

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post #5724 of 19566
What do you usually have them, I'm not seeing any difference but then I don't have a UPS or multimeter.

I usually run both at Optimised and Frequency on Auto with power @ 130%. I just then changed them all to Extreme and Frequency to 450 with power @ 140% = no difference when I run XTU bench.

  • XTU CPU Core Voltage = 1.361v (same as HWinfo VID)
  • HWinfo Vcore shows 1.376v / 1.392v

XTU CPU Total TDP shows 169W. HWinfo Package Power shows 160W.
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post #5725 of 19566
Having a brutal time here with my new 4770k (batch# L315B632 is to be AVOIDED at all costs.)

Currently still throwing WHEA errors with 4.3ghz @ 1.3volts. Memory is 2x4gb 2133mhz Corsair Dom Plats underclocked to 1600mhz with loose timings. Set Min and Max Cache Ratio's each to 4.1 as well. Mobo is a z87 Gryphon.

Again, the above settings are not stable according to Event Viewer.

Any advice for me? Seriously regretting selling off my 3570k + Sniper M3 at this point. mad.gif
post #5726 of 19566
Frankly, I would not bother touching the DIGI+ stuff from its auto values. If you follow the guide up and first do the Core stuff, once stable then you do the Uncore/RingBus/CacheRatio stuff and get stable. Up that tot that point I haven't needed to touch DIGI+ (unless you are perhaps pushing REALLY hard on the previous two steps, as in 4.8+Ghz, etc).

I've found that the only time DIGI+ changes =may= potentially be useful is with trying to push DRAM to higher frequencies. Then you may want to change the DRAM current capacity and there was one other DRAM setting to "Extreme". But I didn't find the need to play with DIGI+ for the most important OC parts (core) or even uncore.

So I wouldn't bother.


In terms if being worried about power, here are two links, one tells you about stuff you can do to reduce power, but you balance that against the second link which tells you what NOT to touch in order not to interfere with performance. The two articles are in sync. Basically, anything with external stuff such as ePCI and SATA i wouldn't try to save energy on. The articles are not long. Good luck:

http://rog.asus.com/253612013/labels/rog-exclusive/maximus-vi-power-saving-power-tuning-guide/
http://rog.asus.com/253522013/labels/rog-exclusive/maximus-vi-extreme-performance-tuning-guide/
post #5727 of 19566
If anyone's interested in benchmarking. other than using XTU, you can also try this one.
The claim is it's a very accurate representation of real world performance gains of OCing/upgrades and there is supposedly 0 ASUS/ROG bias as it's based on independent open-source code.

http://rog.asus.com/241042013/overclocking/rog-realbench-free-app-download-now/

It may be fun to compare e-peens tongue.gif. More importantly, Darkwizzie, I wonder if it would be enlightening to compare XTU/ROG Realbench scores for different OC levels across different CPUs on this thread -- it may be revealing if gains are also consistent across processors, or if processors that need more voltage to go higher say don't yield as much performance benefit (or v.v.)! May be an interesting thing to explore!
post #5728 of 19566
Quote:
Originally Posted by fleetfeather View Post

Having a brutal time here with my new 4770k (batch# L315B632 is to be AVOIDED at all costs.)

Currently still throwing WHEA errors with 4.3ghz @ 1.3volts. Memory is 2x4gb 2133mhz Corsair Dom Plats underclocked to 1600mhz with loose timings. Set Min and Max Cache Ratio's each to 4.1 as well. Mobo is a z87 Gryphon.

Again, the above settings are not stable according to Event Viewer.

Any advice for me? Seriously regretting selling off my 3570k + Sniper M3 at this point. mad.gif

Surely I've messed stuff up, right? ^ This would make my CPU arguably a bottom 1% chip.

TBH, I just followed JJ's lead in his/newegg's Haswell OC'ing guide when he said to set Min and Max Cache Ratio to between 300mhz and 100mhz below core frequency. By the looks of the OP, that's quite a bit higher than needed...
post #5729 of 19566
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RushiMP View Post
 

 

That is what I originally thought as well. I have to go through the settings, but all I can say is my UPS was reporting 200 watt loads, now it is almost 300 watts. That was by turning on all the Extreme modes, VRM frequency, etc. I will likely dial those items back from their highest settings after I am confident that I have 4.8 stable.

Hey Rush, my chart has you with a batch 311. I'm assuming that's a typo, but I want to make sure first.

Also, VID of 1.1 and Vcore of 1.375? I can't find a reading on that picture that says 1.375.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fleetfeather View Post


Surely I've messed stuff up, right? ^ This would make my CPU arguably a bottom 1% chip.

TBH, I just followed JJ's lead in his/newegg's Haswell OC'ing guide when he said to set Min and Max Cache Ratio to between 300mhz and 100mhz below core frequency. By the looks of the OP, that's quite a bit higher than needed...
Here we're not that big on JJ's guide especially when it comes to Uncore. If you OC uncore you have to up the uncore voltage. Also, when we're trying to figure out the offending variable that causes instability, you can't overclock two things at one time. That's like overclocking GPU and CPU and ram at the same time and then not knowing which caused the instability. This is one of the reasons why I suggest setting uncore to stock when overclocking core.

 

First thing I would do is set cache ratio to stock manually. Make sure when you stress, cache is at x34/x35. If you still crash then we have to take a closer look.... at things like input voltage, stress test you picked, temps, etc.


Edited by Darkwizzie - 11/22/13 at 8:42pm
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(29 items)
 
 
Celapaleis (2013)
(16 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
7600k @ 5.197/1.392 1.392v z170 Asus Hero EVGA 1080ti SC Black (2100/6250) x2 8gb GSkill Trident Z 3600 @ 3804 15-15-15-32-2T 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 950 Pro 512gb (Undelwalt) WD Red 2tb (Pack Yak II) Seagate Expansion Drive 5tb (Phoenix Down II) 3x560mm HardwareLabs Nemesis GTX 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
XPSC Raystorm Pro Watercool Heatkiller 1080ti Full Cover Waterblock EK XTOP Revo Dual D5 (Serial, PWM, v4) EK ZMT (1/2 - 3/4 ID OD) 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
14xEK ACF (Compression Fittings) EK x4 250 (v2) Distilled Water + PT Nuke (Copper Sulphate) 24x140mm Silent Wings 3 
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Windows 10 Pro 64bit Catleap 27 Inch 2560x1440 IPS 60hz Display Coolermaster Storm Trigger (Brown Switches) EVGA P2 1000w 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair Air 540 Logitech G Pro Tek Syndicate "Raze the World" Desk Mat O2 + Odac by Mayflower Electronics (Rev A) 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleetfeather View Post

Surely I've messed stuff up, right? ^ This would make my CPU arguably a bottom 1% chip.

TBH, I just followed JJ's lead in his/newegg's Haswell OC'ing guide when he said to set Min and Max Cache Ratio to between 300mhz and 100mhz below core frequency. By the looks of the OP, that's quite a bit higher than needed...

Exactly, JJ is cool but on this account is wrong (or too aggressive). Just follow Darkwizzie's guide. And, of course, be healthily irreverent so - DON"T take Darkwizzie's on his word, and test for yourself (if you can get your PC stable enough to run at Uncore that close to Core for benchrmarks) and see what the impact is. I happen to be lazy and believe Darkwizzie but you don't have to tongue.gif. But also by the same token, don't blindly believe JJ. Also note that Darkwizzie provided concrete chart comparisons, at different levels and performance results whereas I didn't see that elsewhere... something to keep in mind!

I just happen to be lucky that I can run my Uncore at x45 but it really doesn't matter. I doubt it has ANY performance impact in real life scenarios, and in benchmark it'll be a tiny diff if I brought it down to say x40.
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