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Haswell Overclocking Guide [With Statistics] - Page 693

post #6921 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanenanigans View Post




Drop uncore voltage to 1.2v ( or drop uncore to 34x altogether with voltage at 1.15v ). That should allow for lower core voltage overall. I also recall reading somewhere that your uncore voltage shouldn't be higher than your core voltage. Darkwizzie used 2.0 VCCIN for his 1.36v 45x settings, and that's on a 4670k. Since the 4770k has better binning, you might need the same or require slightly less. On my 45x chip, I require just 1.86v, but a core voltage of 1.28v.


Chart shows average 4670k OC to be 45.03, average 4770k oc to be 45.71. Not sure if there is a binning process, keep in mind that those who get a pricier CPU tend to be more hardcore, so they push higher GHZ and they also tend to be able to afford better cooling solution (compared to some 4670kers runnin 212 evo). But then again, you could make the argument that the 4.8ghz and higher OCs are dominated by 4770ks, so there is some room for interpretations of results. On top of that, some people are saying hyperthreading increases temps; that, I would assume, negates the extra cooling point.

 

I agree with you. But I still think there is better binning, cuz it would seem that a lot of the average clocks on the 4770k require a lot less voltage than the 4670k. For example, people can reach 4.5Ghz on say 1.2-1.22v if they have a decent 4770k, but it requires north of 1.25v for the 4670k. I think by now we all realize that the problem with haswell isn't voltage, but dissipation of heat. HT does increase the temps, but I last recall reading that for Sandy Bridge. I think the temperature increase at a certain speed could be because you definitely need a slightly higher voltage to run at a certain speed with HT on vs off.

Now if I had a 4770k and I could do, say 5Ghz at 1.35v with HT off, but only 4.8Ghz at the same voltage with HT on, I would use the former's settings. To be honest, the CPU is deadly quick as it is. I don't do many things that require quad core + HT but I imagine beyond a certain point, those virtual cores will only shave seconds off an already short time to say, render a video in Vegas.
post #6922 of 19539
Quote:
But I still think there is better binning, cuz it would seem that a lot of the average clocks on the 4770k require a lot less voltage than the 4670k. For example, people can reach 4.5Ghz on say 1.2-1.22v if they have a decent 4770k, but it requires north of 1.25v for the 4670k. I think by now we all realize that the problem with haswell isn't voltage, but dissipation of heat. HT does increase the temps, but I last recall reading that for Sandy Bridge. I think the temperature increase at a certain speed could be because you definitely need a slightly higher voltage to run at a certain speed with HT on vs off.

I have not seen any evidence of better binning on the i7. Most of the best ivy's are 3570k's - someone on a forum i posted on got one that did basic tests @5ghz on 1.23v and overnight prime @1.27

If HT needs more volts, it's marginal, very much so. The temperature gain is not - the CPU does ~20% often even higher amounts of increased work and draws a ton more power. 80c vs 95c wouldn't surprise me at all for ht toggle at the same voltage
Quote:
Now if I had a 4770k and I could do, say 5Ghz at 1.35v with HT off, but only 4.8Ghz at the same voltage with HT on

Not going to happen, i used 4.6 @1.265vcore, ht on for weeks. I'm now using 0.01v higher with HT off. Problem is that HT on @1.25vcore is as hot as ht off @1.35vcore, or close to it.
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post #6923 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanenanigans View Post

I agree with you. But I still think there is better binning, cuz it would seem that a lot of the average clocks on the 4770k require a lot less voltage than the 4670k. For example, people can reach 4.5Ghz on say 1.2-1.22v if they have a decent 4770k, but it requires north of 1.25v for the 4670k. I think by now we all realize that the problem with haswell isn't voltage, but dissipation of heat. HT does increase the temps, but I last recall reading that for Sandy Bridge. I think the temperature increase at a certain speed could be because you definitely need a slightly higher voltage to run at a certain speed with HT on vs off.

Now if I had a 4770k and I could do, say 5Ghz at 1.35v with HT off, but only 4.8Ghz at the same voltage with HT on, I would use the former's settings. To be honest, the CPU is deadly quick as it is. I don't do many things that require quad core + HT but I imagine beyond a certain point, those virtual cores will only shave seconds off an already short time to say, render a video in Vegas.

Simply get everyone with a 4770k to turn off HT and report stable "freqs @ vcore". I'm sure you'd see a trend that the majority of non-HT 4770k's outperform the 4670k's in terms of volts needed for specific frequencies.

While not all 4670k's will be "unstable 4770k's without HT", you can bet your bottom dollar that there's going to be at least some number of failed 4770k's which ended up a 4670k's (although I'd assume most of these failed 4770k's would probably end up as 4670 non-k chips)
post #6924 of 19539
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanenanigans View Post


I agree with you. But I still think there is better binning, cuz it would seem that a lot of the average clocks on the 4770k require a lot less voltage than the 4670k. For example, people can reach 4.5Ghz on say 1.2-1.22v if they have a decent 4770k, but it requires north of 1.25v for the 4670k. I think by now we all realize that the problem with haswell isn't voltage, but dissipation of heat. HT does increase the temps, but I last recall reading that for Sandy Bridge. I think the temperature increase at a certain speed could be because you definitely need a slightly higher voltage to run at a certain speed with HT on vs off.

Now if I had a 4770k and I could do, say 5Ghz at 1.35v with HT off, but only 4.8Ghz at the same voltage with HT on, I would use the former's settings. To be honest, the CPU is deadly quick as it is. I don't do many things that require quad core + HT but I imagine beyond a certain point, those virtual cores will only shave seconds off an already short time to say, render a video in Vegas.

I would have seriously considered 4770k if my tasks used hyperthreading. When Skyrim uses past 55% CPU usage, it's not because the engine suddenly learned how to use all four cores, it's because there is a CPU bottleneck and the GPU is AFKing. Granted, it's not all that often with Haswell @ 4.6ghz, but at stock I think this would be much more common, as I increase NPC spawns. And single threaded applications. And chess, which actually performs WORSE with hyperthreading (only benefits from real cores). So I would have to go to BIOS and toggle off HT every time I want to do chess. Very annoying. Rendering doesn't take too long, I rarely make videos, and there is enough CPU juice left to do other things while rendering.

 

If I decided to up my budget though, hexacore doesn't look too bad. But again, gotta get dat IPC and clock speed up for some of the other apps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post


I have not seen any evidence of better binning on the i7. Most of the best ivy's are 3570k's - someone on a forum i posted on got one that did basic tests @5ghz on 1.23v and overnight prime @1.27

If HT needs more volts, it's marginal, very much so. The temperature gain is not - the CPU does ~20% often even higher amounts of increased work and draws a ton more power. 80c vs 95c wouldn't surprise me at all for ht toggle at the same voltage
Not going to happen, i used 4.6 @1.265vcore, ht on for weeks. I'm now using 0.01v higher with HT off. Problem is that HT on @1.25vcore is as hot as ht off @1.35vcore, or close to it.
Maybe, but how do we explain the extra 0.7 ghz OC average and the fact that of the top 25 OCs, like 95% of them are 4770ks? I think the answer is illusive for the binning question.

 

 

Larger data sets plz.


Edited by Darkwizzie - 12/15/13 at 10:38pm
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post #6925 of 19539
I dont think there's a 70mhz difference, it will be exaggerated by stuff like the water or hard pushed results charted from people more likely to have 4770k over 4670k if they're doing that
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post #6926 of 19539
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

I dont think there's a 70mhz difference, it will be exaggerated by stuff like the water or hard pushed results charted from people more likely to have 4770k over 4670k if they're doing that

I think there isn't enough evidence to really be sure either way. Although, spending extra $100 on 4770k when you might not even need hyperthreading in attempts to chase some extra OC headroom is a bad idea. Not saying that's what happens, I can just see *somebody* out there doing that though.

 

 

Time to mine the Gigabyte OC thread for statistics!!! :hannibals

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post #6927 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

I have not seen any evidence of better binning on the i7. Most of the best ivy's are 3570k's - someone on a forum i posted on got one that did basic tests @5ghz on 1.23v and overnight prime @1.27

If HT needs more volts, it's marginal, very much so. The temperature gain is not - the CPU does ~20% often even higher amounts of increased work and draws a ton more power. 80c vs 95c wouldn't surprise me at all for ht toggle at the same voltage
Not going to happen, i used 4.6 @1.265vcore, ht on for weeks. I'm now using 0.01v higher with HT off. Problem is that HT on @1.25vcore is as hot as ht off @1.35vcore, or close to it.

That's a weird scenario. Typically HT has required a slight bump in voltage. Dunno how you require that bump with HT off. But yes, temperatures are a huge problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fleetfeather View Post

Simply get everyone with a 4770k to turn off HT and report stable "freqs @ vcore". I'm sure you'd see a trend that the majority of non-HT 4770k's outperform the 4670k's in terms of volts needed for specific frequencies.

While not all 4670k's will be "unstable 4770k's without HT", you can bet your bottom dollar that there's going to be at least some number of failed 4770k's which ended up a 4670k's (although I'd assume most of these failed 4770k's would probably end up as 4670 non-k chips)

I believe that 4670K chips are just relatively worse processors that weren't suitable for 4770k binning. It's always been like that with every manufacturer. For example, looking at AMD, when the first Phenom II dual cores came out, a lot of them unlocked into quad cores and they required slightly more voltage to be stable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post

I would have seriously considered 4770k if my tasks used hyperthreading. When Skyrim uses past 55% CPU usage, it's not because the engine suddenly learned how to use all four cores, it's because there is a CPU bottleneck and the GPU is AFKing. Granted, it's not all that often with Haswell @ 4.6ghz, but at stock I think this would be much more common, as I increase NPC spawns. And single threaded applications. And chess, which actually performs WORSE with hyperthreading (only benefits from real cores). So I would have to go to BIOS and toggle off HT every time I want to do chess. Very annoying. Rendering doesn't take too long, I rarely make videos, and there is enough CPU juice left to do other things while rendering.

If I decided to up my budget though, hexacore doesn't look too bad. But again, gotta get dat IPC and clock speed up for some of the other apps.

Larger data sets plz.



Yes, exactly my point. The performance difference with HT on for my usage as well is going to be negligible. Taking CSGO as an example, my teammate's 2600K at 4.4 is already stretching its legs in a 24man DM dropping to 150 fps and such while I maintain 200+fps. For reference, CSGO is a CPU/RAM dependent game.
post #6928 of 19539
Quote:
That's a weird scenario. Typically HT has required a slight bump in voltage. Dunno how you require that bump with HT off.

I don't, but it's really marginal, not like HT requires even 0.01 more than HT off for same level of stability AFAIK. It might need a little more if you test it properly and with the same standards, but it hasn't been noteworthy to me and i'm not sure if it's even there, the main thing is the temps
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post #6929 of 19539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

1.95 vrin (vccin) isn't enough for 1.34vid with ht off for me, and 1.3v ring is excessive, just cut it by 0.2 and set uncore to 34x and RAM to 1600 while you are clocking core. What errors, exclusively 0x0124?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanenanigans View Post

Drop uncore voltage to 1.2v ( or drop uncore to 34x altogether with voltage at 1.15v ). That should allow for lower core voltage overall. I also recall reading somewhere that your uncore voltage shouldn't be higher than your core voltage. Darkwizzie used 2.0 VCCIN for his 1.36v 45x settings, and that's on a 4670k. Since the 4770k has better binning, you might need the same or require slightly less. On my 45x chip, I require just 1.86v, but a core voltage of 1.28v.

Got it... thanks guys. Will try that soon.

For the most part, i've been referencing this guide for starters: http://www.simforums.com/forums/haswell-48ghz-on-air-building-a-haswell-system_topic46180.html

Any thoughts on this? It seems to be very detailed.
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Project X99 mATX
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post #6930 of 19539
He says some stuff that i disagree with or stuff that is just wrong like
Quote:
4800 and 4500 on air and be 100% FPU load test stable requires the cap of the processor be removed, the thermal TIM cleaned from the IHS and replaced with ONE PRODUCT and one product ONLY: Coollaboratory Liquid Pro, not the Ultra! and not anything else!

Ultra is reccomended over pro in delid thread here
Quote:
I will post BIOS setups for clocking Haswell for basic clocks of 4100-4300 that do not require any special cooling or mod, 43-4400 which can be done on air but carefully..

^etc
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