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Haswell Overclocking Guide [With Statistics] - Page 696

post #6951 of 19652
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asus11 View Post

if I recall correctly I only needed 1.2 for 4.4 with 44 uncore :X

i'll have to have a good read as ive never messed with ram figures before

I reckon you 'might' squeeze x47 under 1.4vcore on that one, if not it shouldn't be too far off but all depends on how it scales & temp headroom. Nothing major needs to be done with RAM, just drop it down to 1333/1600, leave timings on auto and set voltage as per what the kit is meant to run at. Takes it out of the equation for being a possible limiting factor when clocking core, just like uncore. All in the guide. thumb.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post

I'll list 'when to delid' info in the guide.

Cool. smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antares88 View Post

I'm at 4.5Ghz 1.2v max temp under load 70C (ambient 20C). Got some room left in her yet I think biggrin.gif.

Nice chip there, should be a good 'un if it scales well. thumb.gif
post #6952 of 19652
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post

Sure, try for 4.6ghz if you can! Come back if you have issues, or you have your final/close to final OC so I can chart you for statistics!

Will do! thumb.gif
post #6953 of 19652
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post


---
I'm excited to show you guys my latest round of tests, this time with some data around different stress testing programs, complete with chart, graph, guide overhaul, and everything! smile.gif  

Looking forward to it! Thanks man.
post #6954 of 19652
Since it was only posted on page 682, I must weigh the validity of your conclusion in respect to that exaggeration......what have you proved ? What programs have you tested ? Tell me then how my experience with my primary program (AutoCAD 2014) will change with the cache ratio at 36 as opposed to 46.

I have read repeatedly on forums people stating that they have "proved" that RAM speed has no effect on system performance mainly because when someone ran a few games at two different RAM speeds and got the same or close average fps, he feels he proved his point..... Redo those same tests and record min fps and voila, we see changes....run with memory intensive apps and we see significant changes.

Because you ran a synthetic CPU benchmark and didn't see significantly different results, that does not warrant a conclusion that system performance across the board is unaffected. If manufacturer's of the very products under discussion are reporting this in their overclocking guides, I find it hard to understand why they wud dis their own products for no reason.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ub6WnHmiIOs

Start at 17:00 mark

"The best CPUs will be able to run a native cache ratio and this is what you would want for the absolute best performance".

"You generally wanna hit within an area of between 100 and 300 Mhz below the primary target that you are trying to achieve . If you go past that you will continue to down the IPC or the overall performance of the CPU.

While you have done a good service here in helping people understand the intricacies of overclocking you have not performed testing across a wide variety of programs. If it's between taking your advice and conclusions given your limited resources and JJ (and others) with their experience and resources, I gotta go with JJ.....who certainly doesn't appear to be alone in his PoV.

http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?35293-Haswell-4770k-what-Uncore-do-you-use-on-your-OC-%28Cache-ratio%29
Quote:
Setting it lower than x39 as some users are reporting doing will impact daily performance and is just plain silly.

http://www.overclockers.com/3step-guide-to-overclock-intel-haswell
Quote:
If you manually set it, always keep the Cache/ Ring Bus / Uncore Frequency within 100-300 MHz of your CPU Core speed.

Finally, I gotta ask this question..... if we agree that lowering the cache ratio allows ya to get a higher CPU multiplier then why in the world wouldn't every MoBo manufacturer in the world set it at the lowest possible setting ?
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post #6955 of 19652
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE View Post

Since it was only posted on page 682, I must weigh the validity of your conclusion in respect to that exaggeration......what have you proved ? What programs have you tested ? Tell me then how my experience with my primary program (AutoCAD 2014) will change with the cache ratio at 36 as opposed to 46.

I have read repeatedly on forums people stating that they have "proved" that RAM speed has no effect on system performance mainly because when someone ran a few games at two different RAM speeds and got the same or close average fps, he feels he proved his point..... Redo those same tests and record min fps and voila, we see changes....run with memory intensive apps and we see significant changes.

Because you ran a synthetic CPU benchmark and didn't see significantly different results, that does not warrant a conclusion that system performance across the board is unaffected. If manufacturer's of the very products under discussion are reporting this in their overclocking guides, I find it hard to understand why they wud dis their own products for no reason.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ub6WnHmiIOs

Start at 17:00 mark

"The best CPUs will be able to run a native cache ratio and this is what you would want for the absolute best performance".

"You generally wanna hit within an area of between 100 and 300 Mhz below the primary target that you are trying to achieve . If you go past that you will continue to down the IPC or the overall performance of the CPU.

While you have done a good service here in helping people understand the intricacies of overclocking you have not performed testing across a wide variety of programs. If it's between taking your advice and conclusions given your limited resources and JJ (and others) with their experience and resources, I gotta go with JJ.....who certainly doesn't appear to be alone in his PoV.

http://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.php?35293-Haswell-4770k-what-Uncore-do-you-use-on-your-OC-%28Cache-ratio%29
http://www.overclockers.com/3step-guide-to-overclock-intel-haswell
Finally, I gotta ask this question..... if we agree that lowering the cache ratio allows ya to get a higher CPU multiplier then why in the world wouldn't every MoBo manufacturer in the world set it at the lowest possible setting ?

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

 

And here are the most recent tests for uncore that I have done:

The 4.2 vs 3.4 is the uncore setting. The core multiplier for this test was x45.

 

Testing methodoloy in this test is much more well documented by me.

Chess: Houdini 3, 9mb hash, starting position, 5 minutes.

BF3 Multiplayer: 64 player server in a closed map (Canals). Regular gameplay for entire round.

BF3 Campaign: Second misson, following scripted NPC movement.

Enemy Territory: 30 vs 30, Fueldump.

Runescape: GE, World 3. Capturing FPS while stationary. Max detail, non HTML5. x4 AA Bloom enabled. (It seems to use CPU to do AA)

Oblivion 1: Walk out in the wild, through Oblivion gate, to town gate.

Oblivion 2: NPC combat in Imperial City. Several guards/NPC vs Umbra. Spawn 50 player copies and begin combat once Umbra dies.

 

These were done on tests, as you can see, that vary from CPU benchmarks to CPU reliant games.

 
Maxforces Says:
Test setup

 

Results

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
but if you play 3dmark you will gain some pionts

 

 

THE ABOVE IS ONLY MY EVIDENCE. OTHER FORUM MEMBERS HAVE INDEPENDTLY VERIFIED THIS.

 

Just ask Doug, or Cyro, or basically every single thread regular, I believe most of them have done tests for themselves. In fact, I believe the large majority of OCN Haswell OCers will agree with me, even the ones that don't regularly visit this thread.


Edited by Darkwizzie - 12/16/13 at 11:47am
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post #6956 of 19652
Thread Starter 

Also, your post assumes that I feel uncore is completely and utterly USELESS for performance. That is false. There is a seperate overclocking section just for overclocking uncore. The fact of the matter is, uncore performance increase is relatively small compared to core performance. You overclock core first because too high of an uncore will cause instability, and overclocking two things at once on top of input voltage means changing 5 variables at one time, hardly scientific. Once core is verified stable, then you overclock uncore at your own discretion.

 

What I AM saying is, there is no "bottleneck" from having uncore 3+ multipliers lower. The data shows me that the performance decreases for each decrease in uncore, without an extra bump at 3+ multipliers lower. And that change is so small, I'd rather get 4.6ghz core, 3.4ghz uncore than have 4.5ghz core, 4.5ghz uncore. But would I take 4.6ghz/3.4ghz uncore or would I rather take 4.6ghz/4.6ghz uncore? The latter, of course.

 

We're talking plus or minus 0.8% change in performance from 3.4 vs 4.2ghz uncore @ 4.2ghz core. That's 0.6ghz uncore differenc, double your suggested threshold.

 

JJ from Asus' talk about bottleneck, 1:1 Cache Ratio, makes NO real world performance impact. But that doesn't mean uncore makes no performance impact at all. There is no extra speed boost for having 1:1, there is no extra speed penalty for being 3 multipliers lower on uncore. It scales rather additively.

 

The difference with my approach at overclocking is, uncore still gets overclocked but a) Does not involve changing too many variables at once for figuring out what's what and b) Does not ever hinder core OC due to really high uncore OC and c) Reflects the truth about the performance impact of uncore.


Edited by Darkwizzie - 12/16/13 at 12:01pm
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post #6957 of 19652
Indeed if you can show uncore clock being a significant performance benefit for some program it will be news and added to guide

..and then we will go right back to overclocking with 34x uncore until the core is done, because it's simpler and better anyway, only thing that might change is end result and people pushing uncore harder after core/RAM works good and has figured out OC
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post #6958 of 19652
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyro999 View Post

Indeed if you can show uncore clock being a significant performance benefit for some program it will be news and added to guide

..and then we will go right back to overclocking with 34x uncore until the core is done, because it's simpler and better anyway, only thing that might change is end result and people pushing uncore harder after core/RAM works good and has figured out OC

That sort of news would bring my guide and my ego down to its knees. That I can be so wrong about this after studying this so carefully. And would also blow my mind because everybody else over the course of 7000 posts couldn't prove it but he can.

 

 

In related news:

Linpack is even HOTTER than I estimated. :devil:

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post #6959 of 19652
Quote:
That sort of news would bring my guide and my ego down to its knees. That I can be so wrong about this after studying this so carefully.

Nah, it's just a case of some niche program/use might benefit

let me know when you post temps etc, gonna sleep some
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post #6960 of 19652
this is crazy, I can get 4.5ghz @ 1.2625v with 1:1 ratio.. but can't even get 4.6 @ 1.35v with 34 uncore lol

here goes 1.4
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